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Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:07:37 -0500
From: Dan Meltzer <parallelgrapefruit@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 (Critical news reporting) updates
In-Reply-To: <20051211164601.GA19355@superlupo.rechner>
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On 12/11/05, Wernfried Haas <amne@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 01:35:50AM +0000, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > Although most package updates are clean and require little user action,
> > occasionally an upgrade requires user intervention during the upgrade process.
> > Recent examples of the latter include the ``gcc-3.4`` stabilisation on ``x86``
> > and the ``mysql-5`` database format changes.
> >
> > There are currently several ways of delivering important news items to our
> > users, none of them particularly effective:
>
> I'd suggest changing this to something more constructive - calling our
> current efforts "none of them particularly effective" isn't exactly
> a constructive way of critizing things.
>
> > * Gentoo Weekly News
> > * The ``gentoo-announce``, ``gentoo-user`` and ``gentoo-dev`` mailing lists
> > * The Gentoo Forums
> > * The main Gentoo website
> > * RSS feeds of Gentoo news
>
> Einfo is currently being used for that purpose as well - even if the
> GLEP will leave it for less important news in the future. So i guess
> it should be listed here.
>
> > A more reliable way of getting news of critical updates out to users is required
> > to avoid repeats of the various recent upgrade debacles.
>
> As it was mentioned above, gcc 3.4 went pretty well on x86, can't
> comment on mysql as i don't use it myself. I'd suggest changing this
> text for something more diplomatic as i don't see much sense in having
> council approved GLEPs talking about council approved upgrade debacles.
> I'd suggest:
> "A more reliable way of getting news of critical updates out to users is required
> to prevent problems during upgrades."
My opinion? The gcc-3.4 upgrade has appeared to go fairly well because
it doesn't automagically upgrade, it requires manual intervention
before it is used. People see this and investigate. This is not
something that always happens (apache anyone?, baselayout ~arch
anyone?) And due to this, I don't believe we can judge success on the
gcc upgrade alone.
>
> > .. Important:: This GLEP does not seek to replace or modify ``einfo`` messages
> > which are displayed post-install. That is a separate issue which is handled
> > by ``elog`` [#bug-11359]_.
>
> Thanks for clearing this quite important point up.
>
> > Thus, at least 72 hours before a proposed news item is committed, it must be
> > posted to the ``gentoo-dev`` mailing list and ``Cc:``\ed to ``pr@gentoo.org``
> > (exceptions may be made in exceptional circumstances). Any complaints ??? for
> > example regarding wording, clarity or accuracy ??? **must** be addressed before
> > the news item goes live.
>
> I know you think it is beyond the scope of this GLEP, but i believe
> having a new tool with rules for publication and OTOH all the
> old tools mentioned above without clear guidelines/hints how to use
> them doesn't make perfect sense. The gcc upgrade on x86 has shown so
> far that combining our efforts does work quite well. Even if not
> within this GLEP there should be some documentation how to make use of
> all available tools to inform users. Otherwise we just have another
> tool that gets more or less acceptance within the community.
>
> I'd suggest extending the process of creating a news item to also
> create a text to be posted to www.gentoo.org, the
> announce-mailinglist, the forums, RSS feeds, GWN, etc. Of course
> depending on the importance it may be decided to e.g. not post it
> on announce but only www.gentoo.org.
>
> Do you think this can be done within this GLEP or rather outside?
>
> cheers,
> Wernfried
>
> --
> Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
> Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
> IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
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