Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: Re: bootstrapping since gcc 3.4 is stable

[Alec Warner <warnera6@egr.msu.edu>]

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MIkey wrote:
> 
>>As for the stage 1 problems you described, this is exactly what i
>>already told you in the same thread. Supporting stage 1 costs extra
>>resources, this thread is a perfect example of it.
> 
> 
> And this is the primary point I am arguing.  I keep hearing it, over and
> over.  My testing leads me to a much different conclusion, I offered
> details describing why I reached my conclusions.  It is the developers that
> decided to stop supporting the stage1 installation method, without asking
> users.  I am asking you all to justify that decision, preferrably with
> facts.  I am claiming that that the stage1 installation method is in fact
> much easier, quicker, cleaner, and more dependable.  I have still not heard
> a reasonable argument to refute that basic assertion.  I have heard vague
> claims but no quantification.
> 
> I even went as far as posting patches to fix some of the major bugs that
> have gone unnoticed for, how long?  Which is, in effect, me offering
> solutions.  I have also posted proposals with patches for simple,
> incremental changes in portage that would make gentoo more palatable in an
> "enterprise" environment.  
> 
> So far it has been a fairly fruitless endeavor...
> 

Maybe you think fixing a circular dep is easy, I know I do.  But when
Joe Shmoe think it's OMG U63r 1337 to install gentoo using a stage1
because it makes his system so awesomely fast ( hence, The Conrad
install on the forums, heh ;) ) and he has no ****ing clue how any of
this crap works, and you tell him to fix the circular deps.  He isn't,
he is going to file a bug, which will be marked WONTFIX.  We know there
are circular deps, it's unavoidable in many situations.

The problem with a stage1 as *I* see it, is it that it's a grab-bag
system.  A half-built system that some user, even following the official
docs, can fuck up in a myriad of ways, just by turning on use flags.
USE flags that that enable things that cause dep circles, enabling
things that cause other things to not compile because the stage1 ISN'T a
full system.  Our deptrees aren't complete, they make assumptions about
the current system, and those assumptions generally are not true on a
stage1 or stage2 system.

There is no way around this, in my reckoning, without giving the user a
complete system to start with.  Then they can't trigger silly ass
circular deps, because guess what, the base system is already installed!
  If openSSL depends on perl and perl depends on openSSL, who cares,
they are both installed, not a problem!

- -Alec Warner (antarus)
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