From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EtqwD-0001Vl-UG for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:31:14 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k03IQm9n028809; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:26:48 GMT Received: from buggy.blubb.ch (cable-static-87-245-102-53.shinternet.ch [87.245.102.53]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k03INFOY010315 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:23:15 GMT Received: from chief ([192.168.10.2]) by buggy.blubb.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EtqmT-0006HD-1A for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:21:09 +0100 Message-ID: <43BAC113.3090603@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:23:15 +0100 From: Simon Stelling User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051023) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for January References: <200601011053.k01ArjOh019213@robin.gentoo.org> <43B96D6D.8080107@gentoo.org> <1136226795.8779.10.camel@localhost> <43B975FD.1000401@gentoo.org> <1136228634.23404.125.camel@localhost> <1136230095.8779.32.camel@localhost> <43BAB220.1030601@gentoo.org> <43BAB438.8000301@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <43BAB438.8000301@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: e1a879c9-961a-4941-b562-36a771ccc0a6 X-Archives-Hash: 864845a13da9c9ac259e9e77239d2e4e Donnie Berkholz wrote: > Not necessarily. I just wrote on my blog [1] about this, and got a > constructive comment [2], which I'll talk a little about. > > Here's one example of a global goal: Reduce the learning curve of Gentoo > and increase its usability. Sounds like a good idea, but as Ciaran already said, 'low learning curve' and 'great usability' are just opposite things. Also, it is *very* vague. > This goal would involve a number of projects: > > - - Releng would work to ensure that installing Gentoo is as easy as > possible. This is very vague too. Easy for who? Easy for a user who is too lazy to read docs and doesn't have any experience or easy for a sysadmin with plenty of experience trying to setting up Gentoo on a cluster with >100 boxes? I think this makes it pretty clear that there is not simply one implementation referring to one idea, but I'm afraid that these 'goals' could be misused to force a common direction instead of having multiple efforts addressing the same idea in different ways. > - - The portage team could conduct usability studies of portage (perhaps > with the help of openusability.org?). 'to conduct usability studies' sounds great, but it's IMHO not much more. I don't need studies to point out annoying things from a user perspective, I'm a user myself. Sure, feedback is good, but we already get feedback, in the form of bug reports. > - - Others How do e.g. arches fit into this scheme? Yeah, sure, they make Gentoo easier to use because they keyword stuff. Great. I'm really glad somebody tells me why I am doing the stuff I've been doing for more than a year. So, the 'easy to learn/use' goal might be a goal that quite some projects already are trying to attain, but it really isn't *THE* goal for Gentoo, is it? -- Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Operational Co-Lead blubb@gentoo.org -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list