Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

[Alec Joseph Warner <warnera6@egr.msu.edu>]

Jakub Moc wrote:
> 22.11.2005, 20:57:15, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> 
> 
>>The idea was to move out the stage1/stage2 docs to somewhere else.  Then
>>create some sort of "Advanced Installation Topics" guide or something, to
>>list out the replacement procedures for customizing a system from a stage3
>>tarball, then, eventually, drop the stage1 and stage2 tarballs.
> 
> 
> Erm, did you read what solar wrote about hardened stages and why should stage1
> still stay?
> 
> 
>>I was working on the idea of doing it all in stages.  The "problem" occurred
>>from people freaking out because they didn't bother reading the entire news
>>blurb that tells exactly where the instructions moved to, plus links to the
>>bug # and discussion.  There's also this nice section in the Handbook.

I'd point out that this was not well executed as a major change should 
have been.  We talked of major package changes, apache config changes, 
of package breakage.  Then one day you up and remove what some consider 
a vital part of installing with no warning.  Announcements earlier 
noting the pending removal of tarballs to say, g-announce and this list 
would probably have stifled much of the complains ( see the news hit 
gentoo-wiki, gentoo-portage, and the community ).  Otherwise yeah, you 
will get a knee-jerk reaction, many users think you just screwed them 
out of something.  Nevermind the fact that they are wrong and uninformed 
( in most cases ) you did a crappy job of conveying the message of what 
when and why.

>>"A stage3 tarball is an archive containing a minimal Gentoo environment,
>>suitable to continue the Gentoo installation using the instructions in
>>this manual. Previously, the Gentoo Handbook described the installation
>>using one of three stage tarballs. While Gentoo still offers stage1 and
>>stage2 tarballs, the official installation method uses the stage3
>>tarball. If you are interested in performing a Gentoo installation using
>>a stage1 or stage2 tarball, please read the Gentoo FAQ on How do I
>>Install Gentoo Using a Stage1 or Stage2 Tarball?"
> 
> 
> That FAQ section has nothing in common with the original stage1 docs. Sorry,
> installing stage3 to remove all the use flags cruft subsequently, bootstrap and
> re-emerge the system and then ponder which packages are not needed any more
> (again, there's no reliable tool to remove unneeded stuff from system, I've
> already mentioned this once) - hmmm... :/
> 
> And - once stages 1+2 are removed (as you are suggesting above), then I'll
> install the system only to build my own stage1 w/ catalyst, then reformat and
> start over with my own stage? Ah, that makes live sooo much easier ;p
> 

Personally if releng is already making stages 1 and 2 for the liveCD's I 
see no reason not to give that work away to the community.  Stick it in 
some unsupported/ section on the mirrors and tell people so.  Why throw 
away the work you did making the liveCD?  Can you quantify the number of 
bugs here?

-Alec Warner (antarus)
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