Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

[Scott Stoddard <scott@cs.ubishops.ca>]

Thanks hparker for letting me know about this part of the thread and a 
call for opinions from ATs.

Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> The GLEP was originally created to help the architecture testers with a
> specific privilege: read-only CVS access. This would allow them to improve 
> the quality of the ebuilds sooner, help the architecture teams identify
> working (and perhaps even more important, not-working) tools and perform
> tests on the global system to make sure the distribution is in top-notch
> shape.

And this is certainly still the most important part of the whole thing.

> The e-mail address was not that important, but was decided to bring it in
> "the package" because it would be some sort of appreciation to those users.

Until recently I may have agreed with that sentiment, but honestly I can 
now see several ways that the email address would help to cut down 
confusion and make the whole operation less of a PITA.

1.  The identification of ATs in b.g.o by an @g.o address allows devs 
and other ATs to quickly identify who is and is not a 'trusted' source 
of information.  This may not seem challenging now, but as the number of 
ATs increases I fear it will become so.  We currently have 20 active ATs 
with amd64 and I know there's at least one more in the pipe right now -- 
it gets hard to remember everyone.

2.  As (I would like to think) part of our responsibility is to answer 
questions on the IRC channels, as is the case with the devs, it makes it 
easier from a user standpoint to contact one of us by email working on 
the assumption that our address is nick@g.o as opposed to everyone 
asking for the information over and over again.

> One general idea was that arch testers wouldn't be developers because they
> have no formal obligation to the Gentoo project: we don't expect them to put
> in x hours a week in Gentoo, read the gentoo-core and -dev mailinglists or 
> even catch up with most of the events that happen in Gentoo (like GLEPs and 
> such). This is also a request from the arch testers, because many of them
> *can't* devote much time to Gentoo anyway.

Very true.

> That sentiment is reflected in using a subdomain address, and from what we
> heard no tester had any problems with this (the e-mail addy is far less
> important than the rest of the GLEP).

(Admittedly, I joined the ranks of the ATs after the inital GLEP and 
council meeting)

I have a problem with the subdomain -- actually a few.  Most of my 
issues here are the same as have been presented earlier in the thread 
dealing mainly with the extensibility of the whole thing.  As kurt 
pointed out, what happens when someone occupies multiple roles?  Do we 
just provide every email address and alias ourselves like crazy?

For those ATs that are going to become devs, it seems especially foolish 
as we would be given one address, which will be used all over b.g.o, 
only to have to switch to another one within a period of a couple of 
months thereby building up a cruft of aliases which will have to 
realistically remain as long as we stay with the organization.  I mean, 
it's obviously not my job to maintain that, but it doesn't seem very 
forward-thinking.

Also, when I'm not doing my research for school or working on Gentoo 
stuff I work for a great company in Canada called Canadian Tire.  If I 
want to email someone in the mailroom at our head office, I send an 
email to name@cantire.com; but here's the kicker, if I want to email the 
CEO, I send an email to name@cantire.com.

But wait you say!  Canadian Tire is a corporation and people are paid to 
work directly for the company and therefore everyones' email should be 
@cantire.com.  Well, what about the United Way - one of the biggest 
volunteer organizations in the world (and one I spent many years with). 
  Turns out that you can reach anyone there at name@unitedway.ca, 
manager or secretary or Jo Blo community representative alike.

My point here being that I have a problem with designs that set an 
overlord/underling pattern in place.  I feel that it represents the 
organization as a whole badly.  Somehow I had this belief that if we all 
do work directly for gentoo, then why wouldn't we just be nick@g.o?

> One (important) part of the GLEP is the request that the arch tester has
> passed the Staff Quiz and that a probation period should be passed before
> read-only CVS access is given. I'm personally wondering how close this comes
> to becoming a real developer (which, iirc, is something the trustees should
> be called upon as the Foundation should keep track of "what" defines a
> "Gentoo Developer", as developers have voting rights on the Foundation
> board). As I said before, the arch testers themselves aren't asking for
> being a developer but rather for additional tools to help them do their
> work.
> 
> I've said it in the first meeting and I'll reiterate: what is the sentiment
> of the arch testers in this case (if they are still reading this thread)?

No matter what comes of all this (we do or do not get ro cvs, same for 
emails) I'm going to continue to do my work.  I mean, my motivation for 
joining the organization in the first place has not changed -- I want to 
give back to gentoo because I have enjoyed using it all these years and 
it is only through the RSI of the volunteers that it continues to get 
better and better all the time.

That said, the ro cvs is but a tool to help in our work, and I'm a big 
fan of tools to make jobs faster and easier.  Email addresses are both a 
tool and a point of recognition and in accordance have a two-fold benefit.

> 
> Wkr,
>       Sven Vermeulen
> 
> PS I would be quite surprised if there is *one* arch tester who feels good
>    with this entire thread; it doesn't show of much appreciation between
>    people. There is a huge difference between saying that a group has "made
>    an unfortunate decision" or "did not grasp the essence of the proposal
>    and situation needed to make a good decision", and "abuse of powers".

Well, it has certainly shown me a darker side of the inside of Gentoo. 
Plus, it's not all that comforting when people debate about your 
existence.  I worked about 10 hours this week on Gentoo stuff (it's all 
the time I could afford); not stuff for me -- I couldn't personally care 
at all if xcb or rman work on amd64 as they're applications that I don't 
have a particular use for, but I'm more than happy to put in the time to 
improve our arch support ... because it's. my. job.  Then to be told 
that few people actually want to recognize that work is a little 
disheartening.

Scott Stoddard
deltacow@something.something
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