From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1EZBrF-0006fV-Fy for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:36:41 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id jA7IZsfd029610; Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:35:54 GMT Received: from hermes.orakel.ods.org (dsl67-66.fastxdsl.nl [62.251.66.67]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jA7IWcj7003328 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:32:38 GMT Received: from aphrodite.orakel.ods.org ([172.17.2.15]) by hermes.orakel.ods.org with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54) id 1EZBnJ-0006KR-A5 for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:32:38 +0100 Message-ID: <436F9DC6.8040106@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:32:38 +0100 From: Grobian Organization: Gentoo Foundation User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Macintosh/20051006) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: GLEP 42 "Critical News Reporting" Round Two References: <20051105005814.0de0d8ff@snowdrop.home> <436C8951.4010008@gentoo.org> <20051105111006.GA14844@kloeri> <436C9798.5020805@gentoo.org> <20051105114729.GB14844@kloeri> <436CAC58.4090809@gentoo.org> <1131309435.8543.16.camel@mogheiden.gnqs.org> <20051106214747.4e6a9cff@snowdrop.home> <1131382994.8546.34.camel@mogheiden.gnqs.org> In-Reply-To: <1131382994.8546.34.camel@mogheiden.gnqs.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Scanned: by hermes.orakel.ods.org (Exim Exiscan) using SpamAssassin and ClamAV X-Archives-Salt: 4cd8bce8-94ae-4b1b-a19b-51de488deab7 X-Archives-Hash: ccabf13499b0de274ebdc032a0b8979d Stuart Herbert wrote: > By your own admission, you're on the announce list, and but you didn't > know about the Apache changes. Imagine how many other users were in the > same situation. Imagine how many other users never signed up to the > announce list in the first place. On gentoo-dev, gentoo-user, gentoo-devel, gentoo-server and gentoo-web-user on 2005-09-08 01:48 UTC a message titled "Stabilization of new-style Apache" was posted. Quoting John Myers: > For the record, it was sent to the announce list on 2004-12-24. > Message-Id: <200412240924.35397.stuart@gentoo.org> > Subject: [gentoo-announce] Apache packages refresh on 8th January 2005 giving me the impression that the new-style apache changes were not announced (though they did cause some trouble), and that this message -- which unfortunately is not on Gmane, so I cannot check -- probably deals *not* with those new-style apache changes. If it does, then it might be 'badly timed'. In the whole of 2005 I can see one message on gentoo-announce which is not a GLSA, which is a release announcement for Gentoo Linux 2005.0. Considering the description of gentoo-announce "General Gentoo announcements list (new releases, security fixes)" perhaps this list might not the the right place for such **important** announcements as the new-style apache message. However, suppose I was a normal user, and I would like to receive these messages, where should I sign up for? gentoo-user? "General Gentoo user support and discussion mailing list" sounds like a lot of spam to me, and if I don't have questions myself, or prefer using the (excellent) forums for that, then why should I sign up for that? gentoo-dev perhaps? "General Gentoo developer discussion mailing list" sounds like a lot of spam too, and certainly not as source for important messages from a user perspective. gentoo-security? "For the discussion of security issues and fixes" Well, as user I might only be interested in the announcement of security fixes, don't need discussions on them, and since I want those important messages about changes in gentoo psckages... nope, this is not it. gentoo-gwn? "Gentoo Weekly Newsletter" well, might come in handy, doesn't say anything about what it does exactly and might contain a lot of noise considering what I'm looking for. doc, doc-cvs, translator, ppc-user, ppc-dev, , kernel, laptop: not applicable gentoo-desktop: might be, though not interested in window managers gentoo-server? "Discussions about Gentoo in production environments" ok, I don't need discussions, I just want messages on **important** changes. After going through the list, I got the impression there is simply no place where such messages clearly would go. gentoo-announce sounds as the best option to go for, but its description somehow suggests not. Though, subscribed to gentoo-announce means you get nothing but GLSA announcements and sometimes a new release announcements. So, what list should the user that wants to receive those **important** messages sign up to? I still think that *this* is the reason why people don't seem to know about the important changes, because there is no obvious place where to get them. It's quite likely that a user that wanted to see the new-style apache message didn't see it because it simply didn't appear on a list the user hoped to see it. It was in the GWN of 2005-09-12, but I can imagine a user didn't expect it to be there, as there is no description at al for GWN list, and the **important** information will always have to be extracted from the GWN, since each GWN covers multiple items in a few categories which not every user might interest. Send **important** messages separate to a non-discussion mailing list, and I'm sure that many people will be happy to read it -- just like gentoo-announce. -- Fabian Groffen Gentoo for Mac OS X Project -- Interim Lead -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list