[gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Alec Warner]

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Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
unlike package.mask?

I usually like to know the reason why these flags are being switched on.
Certainly there are some flags that I don't mind and there are others
where I just have to wonder why the hell it's in use.defaults in the
first place.

I'm also a bit worried that things were placed in there a while ago and
are no longer needed, may also be a good idea to date the entries.

- -Alec Warner (antarus)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Henrik Brix Andersen]

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On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
> unlike package.mask?

Sounds like a really good idea to me. Will this require any
modifications to portage, or will it automagically ignore # comments
in that file?

> I usually like to know the reason why these flags are being switched on.
> Certainly there are some flags that I don't mind and there are others
> where I just have to wonder why the hell it's in use.defaults in the
> first place.

I recently added the 'udev' flag which is automatically turned on by
sys-fs/udev. This is needed by at least one package
(sys-apps/pcmciautils) to determine if the user wishes to install
pcmciautils as an udev helper or as a hotplug helper. This was done
after discussing the subject in #gentoo-kernel.

Regards,
Brix
-- 
Henrik Brix Andersen <brix@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 07 November 2005 19:25, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> > Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
> > unlike package.mask?
>
> Sounds like a really good idea to me. Will this require any
> modifications to portage, or will it automagically ignore # comments
> in that file?

Lines beginning with # are ignored.

--
Jason Stubbs
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
> unlike package.mask?

what really needs explanation ?  i mean, why do you need a comment for say:
aalib               media-libs/aalib
canna               app-i18n/canna
and every package in there is the same way

> I'm also a bit worried that things were placed in there a while ago and
> are no longer needed, may also be a good idea to date the entries.

like what ?  dating is pointless imo, use `cvs ann` :P
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Alec Warner]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> 
>>Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
>>unlike package.mask?
> 
> 
> what really needs explanation ?  i mean, why do you need a comment for say:
> aalib               media-libs/aalib
> canna               app-i18n/canna
> and every package in there is the same way
> 
> 
Because I want to know WHY this flag is required to be in use.defaults
vs a normal flag?  Because maybe flags were added in the past to cover
situation X and now that situation is fixed another way and we can pull
the flag out of use.defaults.

>>I'm also a bit worried that things were placed in there a while ago and
>>are no longer needed, may also be a good idea to date the entries.
> 
> 
> like what ?  dating is pointless imo, use `cvs ann` :P
> -mike

Right..cvs ann...how do I do that from viewCVS again? :)

In the end I just wonder at the use of these things.  They are both
helpful and bad.  Fex, canna is in there, probably to tell the system
that I have canna installed.  However, I don't think auto-use should be
for that purpose.  If I want to tell portage that I have canna installed
and applications should add canna support, I should set USE=canna.
Yeah, I may have to recompile some stuff b/c I forgot to set it prior,
but IMHO thats my fault, not the build-systems.

Mostly this cropped up from me installing sqlite, for supybot, which
needs sqlite for it's karma storage.  Fine by me.  Then I go to install
php and find it wants to pull in some fandangled php->sqlite deal and I
go wtf, I don't have that set...ohhh use.defaults... Why the hell is
sqlite in use.defaults?!?  That kind of deal.  There are a lot of odd
situations where I think use.defaults is useful ( although there are
times where i wish people would just add to make.defaults in profile so
I can nuke it there ).  I'd just like to know why the flag is being
forced on.  The same reason why I want to know why a package is p.masked.

Alec Warner (Antarus)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 10:08:45AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> > 
> >>Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
> >>unlike package.mask?
> > 
> > 
> > what really needs explanation ?  i mean, why do you need a comment for say:
> > aalib               media-libs/aalib
> > canna               app-i18n/canna
> > and every package in there is the same way
>
> Because I want to know WHY this flag is required to be in use.defaults
> vs a normal flag?  Because maybe flags were added in the past to cover
> situation X and now that situation is fixed another way and we can pull
> the flag out of use.defaults

i think you're confusing use.defaults with the USE in profile make.defaults

use.defaults is there to simply automatically enable USE flags if a package is 
installled, nothing more and nothing less

> >>I'm also a bit worried that things were placed in there a while ago and
> >>are no longer needed, may also be a good idea to date the entries.
> > 
> > 
> > like what ?  dating is pointless imo, use `cvs ann` :P
> 
> Right..cvs ann...how do I do that from viewCVS again? :)

well, if i had to guess, i'd say try clicking the link that says '(annotate)'

> In the end I just wonder at the use of these things.  They are both
> helpful and bad.

if you want to start a thread about punting use.defaults, then do it ... 
trying to slowly bleed the file of entries is dumb
-mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Alec Warner]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 10:08:45AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> 
>>Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:05:37AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Could we by chance, mandate some sort of comment field in that file not
>>>>unlike package.mask?
>>>
>>>
>>>what really needs explanation ?  i mean, why do you need a comment for say:
>>>aalib               media-libs/aalib
>>>canna               app-i18n/canna
>>>and every package in there is the same way
>>
>>Because I want to know WHY this flag is required to be in use.defaults
>>vs a normal flag?  Because maybe flags were added in the past to cover
>>situation X and now that situation is fixed another way and we can pull
>>the flag out of use.defaults
> 
> 
> i think you're confusing use.defaults with the USE in profile make.defaults
> 
> use.defaults is there to simply automatically enable USE flags if a package is 
> installled, nothing more and nothing less
> 
> 
>>>>I'm also a bit worried that things were placed in there a while ago and
>>>>are no longer needed, may also be a good idea to date the entries.
>>>
>>>
>>>like what ?  dating is pointless imo, use `cvs ann` :P
>>
>>Right..cvs ann...how do I do that from viewCVS again? :)
> 
> 
> well, if i had to guess, i'd say try clicking the link that says '(annotate)'
> 
> 
>>In the end I just wonder at the use of these things.  They are both
>>helpful and bad.
> 
> 
> if you want to start a thread about punting use.defaults, then do it ... 
> trying to slowly bleed the file of entries is dumb
> -mike

I know what use.defaults does.  I'm saying that:

A. use.defaults exists for a reason, and developers are using it to
enable functionality.
B. Turning off a flag in use.defaults may cause undesired behavior.

If the developed enabled a flag in there, I generally think that the
developer knows they are doing, maybe thats a bad assumption? :)  If
there are no consequences to removing auto-use from USE_ORDER I'll do it
( I do similar things on my lone server ).  If I am going to over-ride a
flag in use.defaults, I know what it does, but I don't know what it
affects.  Obviously the flag was added to use.defaults for a reason,
either because it's required for something, or it adds value to the
system, or something I can't think of ;)  I simply want to know what
that reason is.  If it doesn't do anything useful, then yeah, I'd like
to see the flag punted from use.defaults because then it's just fluff.

- -Alec Warner (Antarus)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] use.defaults ( auto-use )

[Mike Frysinger]

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 10:50:14AM -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> A. use.defaults exists for a reason, and developers are using it to
> enable functionality.
> B. Turning off a flag in use.defaults may cause undesired behavior.
> <snip>
> that reason is.  If it doesn't do anything useful, then yeah, I'd like
> to see the flag punted from use.defaults because then it's just fluff.

then your comment about people putting packages in there to work around 
problem X doesnt make any sense

entries exist in use.defaults to map a USE flag to the package it represents 
(when such a package exists, things like nptl obviously dont have a mapping

by definition, no entry in there is a 'work around' or 'fluff', but exists 
*only* because a USE flag <-> package mapping exists ... if anything, our 
use.defaults file is *missing* a ton of entries (i'll toss in more tonight for 
fun :P)
-mike
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