From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1EYNet-0001AW-HX for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:00:35 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id jA5CxoS6017547; Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:59:50 GMT Received: from hermes.orakel.ods.org (dsl67-66.fastxdsl.nl [62.251.66.67]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jA5Cw3W4010802 for ; Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:58:03 GMT Received: from aphrodite.orakel.ods.org ([172.17.2.15]) by hermes.orakel.ods.org with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54) id 1EYNcO-0007Lb-Q0 for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:58:01 +0100 Message-ID: <436CAC58.4090809@gentoo.org> Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:58:00 +0100 From: Grobian Organization: Gentoo Foundation User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4.1 (Macintosh/20051006) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 42 "Critical News Reporting" Round Two References: <20051105005814.0de0d8ff@snowdrop.home> <436C8951.4010008@gentoo.org> <20051105111006.GA14844@kloeri> <436C9798.5020805@gentoo.org> <20051105114729.GB14844@kloeri> In-Reply-To: <20051105114729.GB14844@kloeri> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Scanned: by hermes.orakel.ods.org (Exim Exiscan) using SpamAssassin and ClamAV X-Archives-Salt: 381701aa-4bdc-414f-8095-91ca514627f3 X-Archives-Hash: 647f5c2dcde9876042676fcc9dccbb1a kloeri@gentoo.org wrote: > If we were only aiming at a certain group of people there would be no > need to change anything. The apache announcements reached lots of users > but still left a large chunk of users in the dark. Moving the news to > -announce or some RSS feed wouldn't change anything as the basic problem > with these methods is that people have to actively search out important > news instead of news getting pushed to them. I disagree. A lot Gentoo users I know read gentoo-announce and the GWN. For me it works quite well if I see a message with a warning on something. I can quickly find it back if I am in need for it. I would typically disable the whole news feature of portage and just watch the announce ML with all the news announcements. Works fine for me. The GLEP *is* targetted at a certain group of people, since it is there mainly to help those that complained in [forum_whining] and those -- I think -- mostly desktop end-users to prevent them from breaking their system and complain with us. I broke my webserver too after the apache update. Too bad I was stupid enough to 'just do it' on a webserver that should *not* have been offline for a while. I just ignored the message the init.d script gave when it refused to stop my apache. To cut a long story shory, I have solved the problem myself, knowing I was stupid for ignoring the message on gentoo-dev. I never blamed the apache herd or anyone else but myself and just fixed it myself. Sys-admins are supposed to try updates on a toy box first. A warning is nice, documentation on how to solve it the best is even nicer. Think of "knowledge books" of many commercial systems. What the GLEP does is twofold: 1. Suggest special (**important**) news items to be accepted within Gentoo, and them being stored somewhere 2. Desparately push this news to users, because it seems that they don't read information which is not available (yet! see 1). So thank you for letting me realise that this GLEP should be splitted in two. One for just realising and standardising a way to publish news items on normal and known media: mailing lists, RSS feeds and WWW pages. It should include topics regarding what information (like solutions or workarounds) should be there. Then an additional GLEP which suggests the pushing of information to the user -- like this current GLEP -- can be written when it becomes clear after a reasonable amount of time after realising the GLEP mentioned above doesn't work sufficiently. -- Fabian Groffen Gentoo for Mac OS X Project -- Interim Lead -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list