From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RKiym-0005Yd-Ic for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:56:08 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 306D821C035 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from egr.msu.edu (jeeves.egr.msu.edu [35.9.37.127]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id j922R6Vs030618 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 02:27:07 GMT Received: from [69.176.143.101] (69-176-143-101.dov.spartan-net.net [69.176.143.101]) (authenticated bits=0) by egr.msu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j922Ytsi010723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <433F476A.4040705@egr.msu.edu> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:35:22 -0400 From: Alec Warner User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050806) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Improved ebuild information References: <433EEF5B.1040102@stiefelweb.de> <433EF0A8.6080700@gentoo.org> <433F2DF7.3050600@stiefelweb.de> In-Reply-To: <433F2DF7.3050600@stiefelweb.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: c6ea673b-fce2-4d43-ae6b-af3ac7e04c34 X-Archives-Hash: 6baa7632bbf2b543cab2b04cf24934ee -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ok really first off, I am not a gentoo developer, just to let you know :) First off, everything here is basically taken out of context from gentoo-portage-dev, so the only sane responses ( to this mail, not the other one, which was different ) are going to be from people who read both. > >>> In my opinion, the easiest way would be a wiki. >> >> >> >> Indeed. But why do you need to modify all the ebuilds? > > > do i have to? of course it is not necessary to modify 10k ebuilds in a > week. The line could be added on the next regular update. And as said > below, it could also be generated automatically by the tool that reads > the packages metadata. > Regardless of where this data is going, SOME{ONE,THING} has to compile it all. You spoke on the other ML of HOW-TO links and all manner of info. That info is great. The problem is convincing ebuild developers to compile the data in the first place, and keep it accurate. That is why we suggested you try your ideas here. Writing this stuff into a tool or patching portage is useless if no one compiles/updates this information. > All that has to be done is create a way to print the path to a wiki-page. > Maybe auto-created by eix. Or maybe a new tool named "einfo" that prints > the information included in metadata.xml. > > greets, > Caliga Case 1: Project specific things -> Homepage, guides, HOW-TO's I like what you are looking for, however I don't think it should be a Gentoo-specific project. If one was to make some sort of online repository of packages and associated helpful guides on using them, that would be cool. Even cooler would be if it stood alone from Gentoo ( not a gentoo-only project ). Then every distro could use it, along with most other UNIXes. Then you can make a command-line tool or whatnot to query the on-line database for the information you are looking for. In any case, I personally don't believe any of this belongs in portage, metadata.xml or wherever. Portage's job is to install packages. I don't think many people want tons of irrelevant data in the tree, most people have no problem using a search engine to find it anyway. Case 2: USE flag specific things. This is more tricky. In the current version of portage USE flags are the only way to enable things on a per-package basis. This gives us wonderful things like USE="debug" which is just ass-backwards. People use USE flags for things that in most cases aren't meant for USE flags or go against the global USE flag usage. You will get cases where USE flag usage is abnormal. In that case I'd file bugs against respective packages ( aka, when a global USE flag is used in a way that doesn't jive with that USE flag's global usage. ). If you want to query what flags do, there are utilities for that ( ufed, pyfed? ). If you want more descriptive usage of USE flags, bug the ebuild developers to add more text to the appropriate file, or read the ebuild. Case 3: Update Paths For major packages Gentoo generally does a decent job providing upgrade documentation. Either the lead dev for that herd/project will write it up in their devspace, or put it somewhere. It's often printed at install time as well, and there are tools to catch all those handy messages :) However there are many smaller packages that don't get this kind of support and you are sometimes left fending for yourself a bit as to figuring stuff out, or the solution to your problem is printed at install time ( by install time, I mean post_inst() in portage terms ). I've already had that argument on this list though, and it basically came down to better gentoo commit messages and the fact that the gentoo developers are not responsible for keeping me informed about my packages and whether this upgrade breaks them. And honestly, I understand that. Part of the coolness/problem with gentoo is that you are basically left as your own system administration. This isn't redhat where you are handheld through everything. Many people get along that way on gentoo, stuff breaks, they reinstall, end of story. If you are upgrading package foo and you don't know if it's important or not, or if it will break your system you may want to go and check it out. What does foo do, what depends on foo ( equery and gentoolkit )? Check bugs.gentoo.org or foo's bugzilla for open bugs and check foo's Changelog ( the package changelog mind, not the gentoo changelog ). Good Luck, Alec Warner ( antarus ) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQz9HamzglR5RwbyYAQLiLw//epYhdGOnSM2KUC8hFRkVin4f+KDPNxf1 QvbbfX3gaEfryY2PymcjoOmfWYzySPD6SJhrETnscVMU3lSS26xFSuKdSP+T66rK a9zvO+JeVn+GDm+dyVLjZxtJTLcv23bCzwrS4EcNVpT33iV0OkYkKHIKPqcGh02O GxMmKi3SD5wz6mJYzm9tDAdCxsb7g3TaWJlpUm99wvkcf+JlZLSomz3odxCB7mh8 bQqcpyCyrpdpD/FnrE6GQ68NTg2Axfsck85SwcGdJAgwR7yi9pr3ZSKUZKe19AoY Fz/xQIKIXAlUzRHdAIP3k/nTWawXU0+pucsWJy6S84qsJ+1GIY2EwWU8wpd51llc k6vPTb+k7X9IGo2uNQvyqIIsHruw9Qi0ZiswF8r8d4gZarBBzaTixoK9ThGU/uvg zLdfYS+1VeIB/3F1MZ3DW4heVGPriZ9H+xxjG9seD5CbqsT2gIVGeyYVwkzx+8LT N6Pz6PiUb1OxZoXyOyLCneE/JsEN3UTFBgpbfqUb061N+0eTPyI+46juuF+N50cE g1fcDnvlGVOYvCGRbaursK2HNK/TqBcXoz0xMB10eJkuh+TX5triK6Xhgaxn51gc x1m2GzZ58K2th0xlsCw/0mk/kILvHYN9Sb8hk/cHEoHg2QnxrdyoPr9ecoG+StHM FgqIJvNeNxE= =9WY7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list