[gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage

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* [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
@ 2005-09-21 12:28 Albert Hopkins
  2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Albert Hopkins @ 2005-09-21 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

I'm trying to incorporate into my project the metadata.xml files used in
portage, but I have a few questions:

     1. It seems like many of the package metadata.xml files \-escape
        "special" characters a la bash.  This isn't really necessary in
        XML and if there are special characters, such as '<', etc. then
        there is an XML way of presenting them.  Is there a special
        reason that the '\' is used (i.e does software exist that
        requires this)?
     2. Are metadata.xml files a requirement for categories?  There are
        a few categories that do not have one:
              * x11-proto
              * x11-apps
              * x11-drivers
     3. If a metadata.xml has a <longdescription> element, is it
        required to contain text?  There is at least one package that
        has an empty <longdescription>.  I wanted to use the
        <longdescription> to override the DESCRIPTION in the .ebuild, if
        it exists, but in this case the DESCRIPTION is actually
        infinitely longer than the <longdescription>.
     4. Speaking of <longdescription>, are line breaks to be preserved
        in their representation?  There are a few packages whose
        <longdescription> use line breaks for formatting.  One in
        particular, gnustep-libs/steptalk  not only prefers to preserve
        line breaks, but also appears to prefer a fixed-width font in
        it's representation.  Is this also a requirement?

If anyone has answers to any of the above questions I thank you in
advance for your response.

-m

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 12:28 [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage Albert Hopkins
@ 2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
                     ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chris Gianelloni @ 2005-09-21 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 07:28 -0500, Albert Hopkins wrote:
>      2. Are metadata.xml files a requirement for categories?  There are
>         a few categories that do not have one:
>               * x11-proto
>               * x11-apps
>               * x11-drivers

They should have one.

>      3. If a metadata.xml has a <longdescription> element, is it
>         required to contain text?  There is at least one package that
>         has an empty <longdescription>.  I wanted to use the
>         <longdescription> to override the DESCRIPTION in the .ebuild, if
>         it exists, but in this case the DESCRIPTION is actually
>         infinitely longer than the <longdescription>.

It should contain text, but I don't think that the dtd requires it.
Perhaps it should?

>      4. Speaking of <longdescription>, are line breaks to be preserved
>         in their representation?  There are a few packages whose
>         <longdescription> use line breaks for formatting.  One in
>         particular, gnustep-libs/steptalk  not only prefers to preserve
>         line breaks, but also appears to prefer a fixed-width font in
>         it's representation.  Is this also a requirement?

As far as I know, there are few *requirements* defined for metadata.xml
files.  All we really have is the dtd to determine what is legal.
Anything beyond that really hasn't been discussed.

Perhaps now is the time to start such discussions?

> If anyone has answers to any of the above questions I thank you in
> advance for your response.

Just out of curiosity, what is your project?

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
@ 2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-21 14:18     ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 14:07   ` Albert Hopkins
  2005-09-21 21:17   ` Jan Kundrát
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-21 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wednesday 21 September 2005 15:21, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 07:28 -0500, Albert Hopkins wrote:
> >      2. Are metadata.xml files a requirement for categories?  There
> > are a few categories that do not have one:
> >               * x11-proto
> >               * x11-apps
> >               * x11-drivers
>
> They should have one.
>
> >      3. If a metadata.xml has a <longdescription> element, is it
> >         required to contain text?  There is at least one package that
> >         has an empty <longdescription>.  I wanted to use the
> >         <longdescription> to override the DESCRIPTION in the .ebuild,
> > if it exists, but in this case the DESCRIPTION is actually infinitely
> > longer than the <longdescription>.
>
> It should contain text, but I don't think that the dtd requires it.
> Perhaps it should?

The meaning of the tag is to contain a full description of the package. 
The sense with longdescription is that it is allowed/encouraged to be a 
description that is substantially longer than approprate for the 
DESCRIPTION variable in the ebuild itself. It's purpose is mainly for 
things like packages.gentoo.org where there is place for a long 
description. Another advantage is that it allows for other language 
descriptions of a package (an English one must be provided).

>
> >      4. Speaking of <longdescription>, are line breaks to be
> > preserved in their representation?  There are a few packages whose
> > <longdescription> use line breaks for formatting.  One in particular,
> > gnustep-libs/steptalk  not only prefers to preserve line breaks, but
> > also appears to prefer a fixed-width font in it's representation.  Is
> > this also a requirement?
>
> As far as I know, there are few *requirements* defined for metadata.xml
> files.  All we really have is the dtd to determine what is legal.
> Anything beyond that really hasn't been discussed.

We have a webpage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/index.xml

Although the longdescription description is a bit vague. There is no 
specified format for longdescription, but as no subtags are allowed one 
could say it should be some kind of formatted text.

> Perhaps now is the time to start such discussions?

If it's used I agree.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-21 14:18     ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 14:34       ` Paul de Vrieze
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chris Gianelloni @ 2005-09-21 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 15:34 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> The meaning of the tag is to contain a full description of the package. 
> The sense with longdescription is that it is allowed/encouraged to be a 
> description that is substantially longer than approprate for the 
> DESCRIPTION variable in the ebuild itself. It's purpose is mainly for 
> things like packages.gentoo.org where there is place for a long 
> description. Another advantage is that it allows for other language 
> descriptions of a package (an English one must be provided).

I think the problem here was that longdescription was in an ebuild, but
was empty.

Also, packages.gentoo.org doesn't use this data, but rather just the
DESCRIPTION field in the ebuild, at least for the few that I checked
that have a longdescription in metadata.xml...

> > As far as I know, there are few *requirements* defined for metadata.xml
> > files.  All we really have is the dtd to determine what is legal.
> > Anything beyond that really hasn't been discussed.
> 
> We have a webpage:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/herds/index.xml
> 
> Although the longdescription description is a bit vague. There is no 
> specified format for longdescription, but as no subtags are allowed one 
> could say it should be some kind of formatted text.
> 
> > Perhaps now is the time to start such discussions?
> 
> If it's used I agree.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 14:18     ` Chris Gianelloni
@ 2005-09-21 14:34       ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-21 15:15         ` Albert Hopkins
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-21 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wednesday 21 September 2005 16:18, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> I think the problem here was that longdescription was in an ebuild, but
> was empty.
>
> Also, packages.gentoo.org doesn't use this data, but rather just the
> DESCRIPTION field in the ebuild, at least for the few that I checked
> that have a longdescription in metadata.xml...

I know it doesn't, that does not preclude that it was mainly meant for 
such purposes. There has even been a short expirmental package list based 
on xml/xslt which used it, but it's searching mode was way too slow, so 
it was abandoned.

In any case a longdescription tag if present should not be empty.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 14:34       ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-21 15:15         ` Albert Hopkins
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Albert Hopkins @ 2005-09-21 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev


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On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 16:34 +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 September 2005 16:18, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > I think the problem here was that longdescription was in an ebuild, but
> > was empty.
> >
> > Also, packages.gentoo.org doesn't use this data, but rather just the
> > DESCRIPTION field in the ebuild, at least for the few that I checked
> > that have a longdescription in metadata.xml...
> 
> I know it doesn't, that does not preclude that it was mainly meant for 
> such purposes. There has even been a short expirmental package list based 
> on xml/xslt which used it, but it's searching mode was way too slow, so 
> it was abandoned.
> 
> In any case a longdescription tag if present should not be empty.
> 
> Paul
> 

The list is actually longer than I thought. 

Currently my code does:

description =  xmldesc['en'] or xmldesc[None] or ebuild_desc

which is fine for packages, but categories do not have a fall-back
description without the metadata.  I could have sworn there was a
category with an empty description but I can't find it now ;-)

-m



 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-21 14:07   ` Albert Hopkins
  2005-09-21 14:24     ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 21:17   ` Jan Kundrát
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Albert Hopkins @ 2005-09-21 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 09:21 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 07:28 -0500, Albert Hopkins wrote:
> >      2. Are metadata.xml files a requirement for categories?  There are
> >         a few categories that do not have one:
> >               * x11-proto
> >               * x11-apps
> >               * x11-drivers
> 
> They should have one.

Ok, then I will submit a bug report to have them added.

> 
> >      3. If a metadata.xml has a <longdescription> element, is it
> >         required to contain text?  There is at least one package that
> >         has an empty <longdescription>.  I wanted to use the
> >         <longdescription> to override the DESCRIPTION in the .ebuild, if
> >         it exists, but in this case the DESCRIPTION is actually
> >         infinitely longer than the <longdescription>.
> 
> It should contain text, but I don't think that the dtd requires it.
> Perhaps it should?

Admittedly, I have not read the DTD (must first learn *how* to read
DTDs), but I think if the element exists, it should have text or else
it's meaningless.

> 
> >      4. Speaking of <longdescription>, are line breaks to be preserved
> >         in their representation?  There are a few packages whose
> >         <longdescription> use line breaks for formatting.  One in
> >         particular, gnustep-libs/steptalk  not only prefers to preserve
> >         line breaks, but also appears to prefer a fixed-width font in
> >         it's representation.  Is this also a requirement?
> 
> As far as I know, there are few *requirements* defined for metadata.xml
> files.  All we really have is the dtd to determine what is legal.
> Anything beyond that really hasn't been discussed.
> 
> Perhaps now is the time to start such discussions?
> 

I think so.  There seem to be different formats for the
<longdescription> and I would hate to have to guess or make special
exceptions because I know I'll do it wrong (e.g. the Changelogs).  Would
prefer if there were a more strict definition so then at least I could
say it's not my fault ;-)

> > If anyone has answers to any of the above questions I thank you in
> > advance for your response.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what is your project?
> 
This is for the new packages.gentoo.org.

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 14:07   ` Albert Hopkins
@ 2005-09-21 14:24     ` Chris Gianelloni
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chris Gianelloni @ 2005-09-21 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 09:07 -0500, Albert Hopkins wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity, what is your project?
> > 
> This is for the new packages.gentoo.org.

Cool.

I'd also like to work out some way for us to show that a package is
commercial, either via my "commercial license" (see other thread on
here) or via metadata.xml or something.  I think it would help out users
a great deal if they knew that "emerge doom3" or "emerge maya" still
meant they still had to purchase the software to use it.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
  2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-21 14:07   ` Albert Hopkins
@ 2005-09-21 21:17   ` Jan Kundrát
  2005-09-22  8:49     ` Paul de Vrieze
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jan Kundrát @ 2005-09-21 21:17 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> It should contain text, but I don't think that the dtd requires it.
> Perhaps it should?

AFAIK "CDATA" will be satisfied by one single space as well...

-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-21 21:17   ` Jan Kundrát
@ 2005-09-22  8:49     ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-22 16:14       ` Grobian
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-22  8:49 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Wednesday 21 September 2005 23:17, Jan Kundrát wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > It should contain text, but I don't think that the dtd requires it.
> > Perhaps it should?
>
> AFAIK "CDATA" will be satisfied by one single space as well...

One of the drawbacks of DTD's. In general schema's are better in 
specifying an xml format, as they allow restrictions on CDATA, and more 
freedom in other areas (like true order independence).

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-22  8:49     ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-22 16:14       ` Grobian
  2005-09-22 18:21         ` Paul de Vrieze
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Grobian @ 2005-09-22 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev



Paul de Vrieze wrote:
>> AFAIK "CDATA" will be satisfied by one single space as well...
> 
> One of the drawbacks of DTD's. In general schema's are better in 
> specifying an xml format, as they allow restrictions on CDATA, and more 
> freedom in other areas (like true order independence).

Is there a reason why there's only a (legacy) DTD and not an XSD?

-- 
Fabian Groffen
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-22 16:14       ` Grobian
@ 2005-09-22 18:21         ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-23 16:41           ` Grobian
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-22 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Thursday 22 September 2005 18:14, Grobian wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> >> AFAIK "CDATA" will be satisfied by one single space as well...
> >
> > One of the drawbacks of DTD's. In general schema's are better in
> > specifying an xml format, as they allow restrictions on CDATA, and more
> > freedom in other areas (like true order independence).
>
> Is there a reason why there's only a (legacy) DTD and not an XSD?

One reason is that there still is no real agreement on what schema to support. 
Also when I wrote those I was more at home with DTD's than with WXS or 
Relaxng, and xmllint (part of libxml2) did not support WXS validation.

I'll look into creating a WXS version.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-22 18:21         ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-23 16:41           ` Grobian
  2005-09-23 19:43             ` Paul de Vrieze
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Grobian @ 2005-09-23 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev



Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> One reason is that there still is no real agreement on what schema to support. 
> Also when I wrote those I was more at home with DTD's than with WXS or 
> Relaxng, and xmllint (part of libxml2) did not support WXS validation.
> 
> I'll look into creating a WXS version.

Is WXS an XML Schema file? (XSD)  If so, I have made a few of those 
schemas myself in the past, so I might be of any use if necessary... 
Feel free to contact me about it.


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo for Mac OS X
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-23 16:41           ` Grobian
@ 2005-09-23 19:43             ` Paul de Vrieze
  2005-09-27  8:09               ` Petteri Räty
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-23 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Friday 23 September 2005 18:41, Grobian wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > One reason is that there still is no real agreement on what schema to
> > support. Also when I wrote those I was more at home with DTD's than with
> > WXS or Relaxng, and xmllint (part of libxml2) did not support WXS
> > validation.
> >
> > I'll look into creating a WXS version.
>
> Is WXS an XML Schema file? (XSD)  If so, I have made a few of those
> schemas myself in the past, so I might be of any use if necessary...
> Feel free to contact me about it.

WXS is W3C Xml Schema, so yes. The problem though is that the DTD and the 
schema must be compatible on some level.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-23 19:43             ` Paul de Vrieze
@ 2005-09-27  8:09               ` Petteri Räty
  2005-09-27 10:26                 ` Paul de Vrieze
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Petteri Räty @ 2005-09-27  8:09 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> 
> 
> WXS is W3C Xml Schema, so yes. The problem though is that the DTD and the 
> schema must be compatible on some level.
> 
> Paul
> 

This is not really a problem because you can validate xml files against
both a DTD and a schema. When you are making the schema you just make
sure that it has everything that he dtd says and then some more defined
restrictions on top of it. I have also written a couple of schemas in
the past so I can offer help if needed.

Regards,
Petteri Räty (Betelgeuse)


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage
  2005-09-27  8:09               ` Petteri Räty
@ 2005-09-27 10:26                 ` Paul de Vrieze
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Paul de Vrieze @ 2005-09-27 10:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Tuesday 27 September 2005 10:09, Petteri Räty wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > WXS is W3C Xml Schema, so yes. The problem though is that the DTD and the
> > schema must be compatible on some level.
> >
> > Paul
>
> This is not really a problem because you can validate xml files against
> both a DTD and a schema. When you are making the schema you just make
> sure that it has everything that he dtd says and then some more defined
> restrictions on top of it. I have also written a couple of schemas in
> the past so I can offer help if needed.

What I mean is that documents passing one of the restrictions will not 
necessarilly pass the other one. I'll go to at least write one though.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@gentoo.org
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2005-09-27 10:28 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-09-21 12:28 [gentoo-dev] Questions about XML files used in portage Albert Hopkins
2005-09-21 13:21 ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-21 13:34   ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-21 14:18     ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-21 14:34       ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-21 15:15         ` Albert Hopkins
2005-09-21 14:07   ` Albert Hopkins
2005-09-21 14:24     ` Chris Gianelloni
2005-09-21 21:17   ` Jan Kundrát
2005-09-22  8:49     ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-22 16:14       ` Grobian
2005-09-22 18:21         ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-23 16:41           ` Grobian
2005-09-23 19:43             ` Paul de Vrieze
2005-09-27  8:09               ` Petteri Räty
2005-09-27 10:26                 ` Paul de Vrieze

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