From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8646138334 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:38:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A2C40E0963; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C8BCE0957 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiot (c134-66.icpnet.pl [85.221.134.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 62A7A34BDA5; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <428f72eb77b2da8bfecc8aac7c782ba70bee0614.camel@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' From: =?UTF-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_G=C3=B3rny?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org, David Seifert Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 12:38:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <20191012110023.165840-1-soap@gentoo.org> <1bbad081be57654e20e590734ed8aa88dc6f6176.camel@gentoo.org> <20191012160228.GA2481@linux1.home> <25763900.3IMS5cSOPn@ernie> <86031cc11741c13b354ad85577a1e32c4ca97460.camel@gentoo.org> <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> <2b4de5d1-e5f3-1c9d-792f-0e64002d04e3@uls.co.za> <5b46c29caf46e7b0294509a243cc80b35173dfb2.camel@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-HwQeL97YJzLhX4dh9a2T" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Archives-Salt: b6005598-acd7-4359-bc08-449e9f6ff074 X-Archives-Hash: 186a6f223ae788185c80c9d0243d3f4a --=-HwQeL97YJzLhX4dh9a2T Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2019-10-16 at 12:03 +0200, Jaco Kroon wrote: > Hi, >=20 > -- large trim -- > > > For what it's worth. All of my systems are installed with a fixed- > > > size > > > 512MB / with everything else (including /usr) on separate LVs. > > >=20 > > > Whilst sbin vs bin is just a matter of what's available, to me it > > > makes > > > sense to keep these split. To me it's always been logical to keep > > > administrative type (root) tools under sbin, and stuff that's > > > generally > > > useful for users under bin. > > >=20 > > > Keeping / and /usr split (or the ability to keep it split) is rather > > > crucial for me. It's for historic installations a matter of space > > > constraints on /. For new installations it's a matter of keeping / > > > as > > > small as possible in order to have a smallish bootable system which > > > can > > > be used for recovering the rest of the system, ideally without an > > > initrd > > > (which also works to an extent). > > >=20 > > > Kind Regards, > > > Jaco > > >=20 > > For the umpteenth time time: nothing will change. You can keep your > > (albeit broken) separate / and /usr partitions. *NOTHING* will change > > for anyone. There are no plans to change the defaults. This is *MERELY* > > about giving people the chance to opt in to the /usr-merge. > Thanks for the confirmation. As long as it's an OPTION I'm happy. And > no, other than on my desktop machine a split /usr is working very well, > and even in that case a split off /lib/firmware actually caused me much, > much more problems (for i915 and amdgpu firmware) than a split /usr.=20 > Unfortunately /lib/firmware grew over the years and so I had no choice > other than to split it off after the fact. > > That said, the idea of using / as a "recovery" filesystem in general is > > broken:=20 > > https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/ > > And no, this is not systemd breaking your system, or Lennart, it's > > distros and userlands not being careful to have things in / never > > depend on things in /usr. >=20 > It's saved my butt more than once when the (extremely) limited tools in > the initrds on those same systems failed to do so. Mostly these cases > weren't Gentoo. Yes RHEL, I'm looking at you. Gentoo I generally > recover crazy faults without the use of system rescue CDs (probably > required it 10 times over 15 years). Can't say the same for those > distro's pushing for "recovery systems in initrd", and I'm running > probably 3x more Gentoo systems than all other distro's combined. >=20 > The only stuff so far I really wished worked without /usr was editors > such as vim and/or nano (sed sufficed in those cases). >=20 > Would contributing a script that's able to check which binaries in /bin > (and /sbin) depend on libs not also on / be useful here? Perhaps as a > QA check somehow? >=20 I've been doing that for quite some time, and the usual answer was 'I don't care, use initramfs, but I WON'T move files correctly to /usr'. --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --=-HwQeL97YJzLhX4dh9a2T Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAABCgB9FiEEx2qEUJQJjSjMiybFY5ra4jKeJA4FAl2m8xxfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEM3 NkE4NDUwOTQwOThEMjhDQzhCMjZDNTYzOUFEQUUyMzI5RTI0MEUACgkQY5ra4jKe JA5NMwf/WYfgx6cofnCuFqwZAoQ0IG6VE80DQTbixRtBtI8mmNeI9bIUX5HunRkW bNnX5qSeXs/oC3gbs1wSUf5pSIuWtoS5ZMgNRldlunW0DCD/Q95AsTPhNEgiyNiF UD9Ub8StOfycwir7omutOsojCypCfdbgkYdRB9ouYOFBXyD0oKZJWNoUKzSOOg/0 YkP8eCkeNZKjsRwJ54FTsKepoJCaN2XuUKQTGLhWHybqvPgEgWJG99xAB9hyYY7Z rZBB+YIM19LBFqlrd0Aw5EsqPh7yXKsyN9MZjvY3W3DZBSgsU/RCBZOzIyH2QlYd DRZMXRsI6nZCcLncj0t9rZDe+HLLzQ== =+jXm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-HwQeL97YJzLhX4dh9a2T--