From: "Michał Górny" <mgorny@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org, David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin'
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 12:38:19 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <428f72eb77b2da8bfecc8aac7c782ba70bee0614.camel@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <eaea30bf-7f0f-300f-24c9-0ba1357452ba@uls.co.za>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3085 bytes --]
On Wed, 2019-10-16 at 12:03 +0200, Jaco Kroon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> -- large trim --
> > > For what it's worth. All of my systems are installed with a fixed-
> > > size
> > > 512MB / with everything else (including /usr) on separate LVs.
> > >
> > > Whilst sbin vs bin is just a matter of what's available, to me it
> > > makes
> > > sense to keep these split. To me it's always been logical to keep
> > > administrative type (root) tools under sbin, and stuff that's
> > > generally
> > > useful for users under bin.
> > >
> > > Keeping / and /usr split (or the ability to keep it split) is rather
> > > crucial for me. It's for historic installations a matter of space
> > > constraints on /. For new installations it's a matter of keeping /
> > > as
> > > small as possible in order to have a smallish bootable system which
> > > can
> > > be used for recovering the rest of the system, ideally without an
> > > initrd
> > > (which also works to an extent).
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Jaco
> > >
> > For the umpteenth time time: nothing will change. You can keep your
> > (albeit broken) separate / and /usr partitions. *NOTHING* will change
> > for anyone. There are no plans to change the defaults. This is *MERELY*
> > about giving people the chance to opt in to the /usr-merge.
> Thanks for the confirmation. As long as it's an OPTION I'm happy. And
> no, other than on my desktop machine a split /usr is working very well,
> and even in that case a split off /lib/firmware actually caused me much,
> much more problems (for i915 and amdgpu firmware) than a split /usr.
> Unfortunately /lib/firmware grew over the years and so I had no choice
> other than to split it off after the fact.
> > That said, the idea of using / as a "recovery" filesystem in general is
> > broken:
> > https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/
> > And no, this is not systemd breaking your system, or Lennart, it's
> > distros and userlands not being careful to have things in / never
> > depend on things in /usr.
>
> It's saved my butt more than once when the (extremely) limited tools in
> the initrds on those same systems failed to do so. Mostly these cases
> weren't Gentoo. Yes RHEL, I'm looking at you. Gentoo I generally
> recover crazy faults without the use of system rescue CDs (probably
> required it 10 times over 15 years). Can't say the same for those
> distro's pushing for "recovery systems in initrd", and I'm running
> probably 3x more Gentoo systems than all other distro's combined.
>
> The only stuff so far I really wished worked without /usr was editors
> such as vim and/or nano (sed sufficed in those cases).
>
> Would contributing a script that's able to check which binaries in /bin
> (and /sbin) depend on libs not also on / be useful here? Perhaps as a
> QA check somehow?
>
I've been doing that for quite some time, and the usual answer was 'I
don't care, use initramfs, but I WON'T move files correctly to /usr'.
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 618 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-10-16 10:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-10-12 11:00 [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' David Seifert
2019-10-12 11:11 ` Michał Górny
2019-10-12 16:02 ` William Hubbs
2019-10-12 17:01 ` Dennis Schridde
2019-10-12 17:52 ` David Seifert
2019-10-13 16:33 ` Mike Gilbert
2019-10-13 16:43 ` Mike Gilbert
2019-10-13 17:38 ` Michał Górny
2019-10-15 12:00 ` David Seifert
2019-10-15 16:02 ` Mike Gilbert
2019-10-15 16:04 ` Mike Gilbert
2019-10-15 17:34 ` David Seifert
2019-10-16 3:08 ` Joshua Kinard
2019-10-16 15:39 ` William Hubbs
2019-10-16 17:17 ` Ulrich Mueller
2019-10-16 18:19 ` William Hubbs
2019-10-17 6:59 ` Ulrich Mueller
2019-10-19 23:36 ` Joshua Kinard
2019-10-16 9:18 ` Jaco Kroon
2019-10-16 9:48 ` David Seifert
2019-10-16 10:03 ` Jaco Kroon
2019-10-16 10:38 ` Michał Górny [this message]
2019-10-16 16:06 ` William Hubbs
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=428f72eb77b2da8bfecc8aac7c782ba70bee0614.camel@gentoo.org \
--to=mgorny@gentoo.org \
--cc=gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org \
--cc=soap@gentoo.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox