[gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Matthew Marlowe]

I dont know whether this should be a GLEP or just a simple email,
but I'll start as an email....

GENERAL BACKGROUND:
--------------------------------------------
Gentoo is being increasingly deployed in datacenter environments, especially
in multilayered apache/tomcat/mysql configurations.  Many clients in the 10-25
box range have decided to switch their infrastructure entirely to gentoo due to
satisfaction with gentoo's ease of configuration and overall lifetime flexibility with
key applications (no need to reinstall/make a major upgrade of the OS - and 
no RPM hell).

Recently, Mysql AB has released two new features/products: cluster support
and mysql network (a commercial support offering).  As a consultant, I have
several clients looking to deploy both.   However, the clients are worried that
they are going to be forced to switch their DB layers to redhat to ensure stability
and support.  Mysql also participates in TSA Network such that any mysql server
issues could be reported to them and multiple vendors including dell, redhat, and mysql
would all work together to resolve problems.  Dell has just launched a mysql support
program at http://www.dell.com/mysql.


RECENT ACTIONS
--------------------------------
I had multiple discussion with mysql representatives at the mysql users conference
this week in Santa Clara.  Mysql initially had a two faced response: They would try
to support all their customers to the extent possible due to a strong commitment
to no bugs in their code, however the more complex your mysql configuration was
the more they wanted you to be on a certified platform (which involves mysql building
a test environment and putting it through extensive regression testing for a period of
time, they have contracted out with a third party testing company to do this for each
platform and some hardware configurations).  They didn't know how they could do 
this to gentoo based on the fact that one person's gentoo was different than anothers.
I was told that at least three individuals: Andy Bang (Marketing VP, manager mysql network),
Arjen(sp?) (Community Relations), and Brian Akker(sp?) would all have to approve adding
a new platform.

During the conference I spoke with Andy and Arjen about gentoo discussion regarding 
creating a server profile, and at least locking key libraries for six month intervals.  Mysql
also told me they were receiving many requests for gentoo support, and if gentoo
could get a server profile setup, they would be interested in supporting it - as it would make
their gentoo users happy and provide additional income via mysql network.  So, there 
appears to be a deal that can be reached here.  I will try to speak with Brian Akker and
any other individuals at mysql next week to confirm an agreement.

Last night, I broached the idea on the gentoo-dev channel and suggested that if the
generic server profile wasn't ready - I should at least be able to create a specific
profile dedicated to commercial mysql support.  Others seemed to agree, although
a few technical issues were brought up and which would need to be resolved.  I was
also told to confer with gentoo-releng before starting any new profile work.

I also posted a question about the server profile status to gentoo-server, but there wasn't
a substantive response and after 1-2 years of waiting, I'm not sure I want to depend on it.
(the above isn't meant to slam it, it's just that my clients can't wait any longer).

I messeged wolf31o2 and he seemed ammenable, but asked that an email be sent out
and this is that email.

PROPOSAL:
--------------------
Creation of a "commercial/amd64/mysql" profile under /usr/portage/profiles.  The directory structure
is setup so that any other developers could create dedicated profiles for similiar commercial 
support w/o cluttering up the tree.  Everything would be under /usr/portage/profiles/commercial.

I would initially use default-linux/amd64/2005.0/no-multilib as the base for modification as this is what I 
currently use on our servers.

After submitting the new profile and testing it, I would create online documentation that both gentoo and
mysql could reference to and provide ongoing maintenance for the profile- but would avoid making any
significant changes other than at 6-12 month intervals.

As for the mysql installation itself on these boxes, these would be binaries provided by mysql for two reasons:

1) Mysql binaries are compiled with icc which could provide significant performance gains for the targeted user base.  
Untill icc is fully compatible with portage, I'd rather avoid installing icc myself on customer boxes.

2) Mysql would prefer their own binaries for certification.


Regards,
MattM


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Matthew Marlowe wrote:

> I dont know whether this should be a GLEP or just a simple email,
> but I'll start as an email....
>
> GENERAL BACKGROUND:
> --------------------------------------------
> Gentoo is being increasingly deployed in datacenter environments, especially
> in multilayered apache/tomcat/mysql configurations.  Many clients in the 10-25
> box range have decided to switch their infrastructure entirely to gentoo due to
> satisfaction with gentoo's ease of configuration and overall lifetime flexibility with
> key applications (no need to reinstall/make a major upgrade of the OS - and
> no RPM hell).
>
> Recently, Mysql AB has released two new features/products: cluster support
> and mysql network (a commercial support offering).  As a consultant, I have
> several clients looking to deploy both.   However, the clients are worried that
> they are going to be forced to switch their DB layers to redhat to ensure stability
> and support.  Mysql also participates in TSA Network such that any mysql server
> issues could be reported to them and multiple vendors including dell, redhat, and mysql
> would all work together to resolve problems.  Dell has just launched a mysql support
> program at http://www.dell.com/mysql.
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lots of stuff snipped
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I like the concept.  In this particular case, it looks to me like everyone 
comes out ahead, and as a test case, MySQL is better than anything else 
that comes immediately to mind.  (As you see from my signature, what you 
are proposing doesn't affect me much, but I've used MySQL for a long time, 
I like it, this supports them, and done right, gives everyone involved 
some good publicity.)

Regards,
Ferris
- --
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (sparc)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Francesco Riosa]

Matthew Marlowe wrote:
<too big snip because I'm writing in vncviever>
- there are tests that show mysql compiled with icc much faster,
obviously only on intel box
- you can find a very basic ebuild for mysql-bin at b.g.o/83424
- packages for mysql-4.1 have been dowloaded hundreds times starting
2004-12 from b.g.o/83011 and http://www.francesco-riosa.com/gentoo/
  very few reported bugs, mostly ebuild related (not mysql fault)
- the story is totally different if you look at mysql-5.0 or gcc-4.0
currently there are 74 Mb of compile/test log that can document it.
- on the server maillist the idea of a slow update / hyper stable branch
has been not very well accepted as far as I can remember.

LIFO proposal

- Learn from TV, update your server in "differita" <- translate as
needed.  Follow the updates of the main stable branch ... delayed 4 weeks.
 You will have a 100 times more tested tree than the hyper stable one.
We need a handly way to do this
- Apart from the icc compiled ones avoid the use of precompiled binary.
  MySQL compiling and running depends from few other things:
  = linux-headers  / kernel ?
  = glibc
  = gcc / compiler
  = crypt
  = ssh
  = readline
  = perl
  = nsl
  = tcp wrappers
Ask to MySQL ab what version of theese they certify and build in loco
the stuff should be non plus ultra

Best regards
Francesco Riosa

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Matthew Marlowe wrote:
> They didn't know how they could do 
> this to gentoo based on the fact that one person's gentoo was different than anothers.

So is one person's Red Hat from another's, if they're updating their
systems using RHN. Perhaps to a lesser extent, but it is the case.

At least one company I know of has certified specific versions of its
software on Gentoo rather than certifying Gentoo as a whole, and that in
general sounds like the best solution for us. If profiling is the best
implementation of that on our side, so be it.

> 1) Mysql binaries are compiled with icc which could provide significant performance gains for the targeted user base.  
> Untill icc is fully compatible with portage, I'd rather avoid installing icc myself on customer boxes.

I am really not a fan of this. What is the problem with icc and portage
right now? Set CC=icc and compile away.

Perhaps this situation could be fixed rather than adding a hack to work
around it.

Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Georgi Georgiev]

maillog: 22/04/2005-15:18:31(-0700): Matthew Marlowe types
> 
> PROPOSAL:
> --------------------
> Creation of a "commercial/amd64/mysql" profile under
> /usr/portage/profiles.  The directory structure is setup so that any
> other developers could create dedicated profiles for similiar
> commercial support w/o cluttering up the tree.  Everything would be
> under /usr/portage/profiles/commercial.
> 
> I would initially use default-linux/amd64/2005.0/no-multilib as the
> base for modification as this is what I currently use on our servers.
> 
> After submitting the new profile and testing it, I would create online
> documentation that both gentoo and mysql could reference to and
> provide ongoing maintenance for the profile- but would avoid making
> any significant changes other than at 6-12 month intervals.
> 
> As for the mysql installation itself on these boxes, these would be
> binaries provided by mysql for two reasons:
> 
> 1) Mysql binaries are compiled with icc which could provide
> significant performance gains for the targeted user base.  Untill icc
> is fully compatible with portage, I'd rather avoid installing icc
> myself on customer boxes.

Are you sure you didn't miss something here? icc and amd64?

-- 
*>   Georgi Georgiev   *> You cannot use your friends and have them    *>
<*    chutz@gg3.net    <* too.                                         <*
*>  +81(90)2877-8845   *>                                              *>
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> Are you sure you didn't miss something here? icc and amd64?

Well, "amd64" in Gentoo -- it works on em64t at least.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Georgi Georgiev]

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maillog: 22/04/2005-20:54:01(-0700): Donnie Berkholz types
> Georgi Georgiev wrote:
> > Are you sure you didn't miss something here? icc and amd64?
> 
> Well, "amd64" in Gentoo -- it works on em64t at least.

icc only has x86 and ia64 keywords, so I was figuring, you see...

-- 
 >   Georgi Georgiev    > Live within your income, even if you have     >
<     chutz@gg3.net    <  to borrow to do so. -- Josh Billings         <
 >  +81(90)2877-8845    >                                               >

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial mysql support

[Sebastian Bergmann]

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Matthew Marlowe wrote:
> Arjen(sp?)

 Arjen Lentz

> and Brian Akker(sp?)

 Brian Aker

--
Sebastian Bergmann                      http://www.sebastian-bergmann.de/
GnuPG Key: 0xB85B5D69 / 27A7 2B14 09E4 98CD 6277 0E5B 6867 C514 B85B 5D69

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Creating a dedicated gentoo profile for commercial SW support

[Kurt Albershardt]

Francesco Riosa wrote:
> 
> update your server in "differita" <- translate as
> needed.  Follow the updates of the main stable branch ... delayed 4 weeks.
>  You will have a 100 times more tested tree than the hyper stable one.
> We need a handly way to do this

Any suggestions?

I'd really love to have a "boring" branch of Gentoo for the servers I 
manage.



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