* [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
@ 2005-04-08 3:46 Mike Frysinger
2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2005-04-08 3:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
can stable uses of gcc-3.3.5-r1 upgrade to gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 and see if
they hit any fun and exciting bugs ?
if not i'd like to move this to stable this weekend
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
@ 2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
2005-04-08 11:56 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dan Meltzer @ 2005-04-08 11:19 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
One thing... Maybe its just me... or maybe they are in no way related,
but I seem to have heard of a lot more 'libtool' problems when using a
snapshot version instead of a regularly numbered version, is there a
reason?
On Apr 7, 2005 11:46 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> can stable uses of gcc-3.3.5-r1 upgrade to gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 and see if
> they hit any fun and exciting bugs ?
>
> if not i'd like to move this to stable this weekend
> -mike
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
@ 2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
2005-04-08 12:09 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-09 6:24 ` [gentoo-dev] List-Unsubscribe ren tie'nan
2005-04-08 12:00 ` [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Stefan Sperling
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Ferris McCormick @ 2005-04-08 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Mike Frysinger; +Cc: gentoo-dev
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> can stable uses of gcc-3.3.5-r1 upgrade to gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 and see if
> they hit any fun and exciting bugs ?
>
Uh, there isn't any such thing. If you mean this:
Mon Mar 21 14:05:58 2005 >>> sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1
it's been stable on sparc for 2.5 weeks.
Or did you mean this instead?
gcc-3.4.3.20050110-r1
> if not i'd like to move this to stable this weekend
> -mike
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Regards,
Ferris
- --
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
@ 2005-04-08 11:56 ` Stefan Sperling
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Sperling @ 2005-04-08 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 07:19:06AM -0400, Dan Meltzer wrote:
> One thing... Maybe its just me... or maybe they are in no way related,
> but I seem to have heard of a lot more 'libtool' problems when using a
> snapshot version instead of a regularly numbered version, is there a
> reason?
Maybe you mean this?
* Scanning libtool files for hardcoded gcc library paths...
* [1/6] Scanning /lib ...
* [2/6] Scanning /usr/lib ...
* FIXING: /usr/lib/bmp/Input/libmpg123.la ...[v]
* FIXING: /usr/lib/kde3/libk3boggvorbisdecoder.la ...[v]
* FIXING: /usr/lib/kde3/libk3bexternalencoder.la ...[v]
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* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
@ 2005-04-08 12:00 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-08 13:15 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-10 15:31 ` Spider
4 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Sperling @ 2005-04-08 12:00 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:46:35PM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> can stable uses of gcc-3.3.5-r1 upgrade to gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 and see if
> they hit any fun and exciting bugs ?
it works nicely here. it compiles and can compile sed.
no bugs, no fun :(
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
@ 2005-04-08 12:09 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-09 6:24 ` [gentoo-dev] List-Unsubscribe ren tie'nan
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Sperling @ 2005-04-08 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 11:35:19AM +0000, Ferris McCormick wrote:
> Uh, there isn't any such thing. If you mean this:
> Mon Mar 21 14:05:58 2005 >>> sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1
> it's been stable on sparc for 2.5 weeks.
>
> Or did you mean this instead?
> gcc-3.4.3.20050110-r1
mike, I was testing version gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1.
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* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2005-04-08 12:00 ` [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Stefan Sperling
@ 2005-04-08 13:15 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-10 15:31 ` Spider
4 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2005-04-08 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Thursday 07 April 2005 11:46 pm, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1
sorry, ive been hacking on both the 3.3.5 and 3.4.3 snapshots lately and i
thought they were both made 20050110 ...
i am looking for 3.3.5.20050130-r1 to be tested for stable
-mike
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* [gentoo-dev] List-Unsubscribe
2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
2005-04-08 12:09 ` Stefan Sperling
@ 2005-04-09 6:24 ` ren tie'nan
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: ren tie'nan @ 2005-04-09 6:24 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2005-04-08 13:15 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2005-04-10 15:31 ` Spider
2005-04-10 20:22 ` Mike Frysinger
4 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Spider @ 2005-04-10 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1054 bytes --]
On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 22:46 -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> can stable uses of gcc-3.3.5-r1 upgrade to gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 and see if
> they hit any fun and exciting bugs ?
>
> if not i'd like to move this to stable this weekend
> -mike
A touch late, but this uncovered a bug in libtool.
Basically.. you just fucked all c++ code completely :p
grep 3.3.5 /usr/bin/libtool
predep_objects="/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/../../../crti.o /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/crtbeginS.o"
postdep_objects="/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/crtendS.o /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/../../../crtn.o"
compiler_lib_search_path="-L/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5
-L/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib -L/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5/../../.."
*Sigh*
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88596
//Spider
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See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-10 15:31 ` Spider
@ 2005-04-10 20:22 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-10 21:22 ` Spider
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2005-04-10 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Sunday 10 April 2005 11:31 am, Spider wrote:
> A touch late, but this uncovered a bug in libtool.
re-emerge libtool and it'll fix itself
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-10 20:22 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2005-04-10 21:22 ` Spider
2005-04-10 22:16 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
2005-04-10 23:33 ` Mike Frysinger
0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Spider @ 2005-04-10 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 618 bytes --]
On Sun, 2005-04-10 at 16:22 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 10 April 2005 11:31 am, Spider wrote:
> > A touch late, but this uncovered a bug in libtool.
>
> re-emerge libtool and it'll fix itself
Yep, I know that.
Unfortunately, thats -not- going to be a "solution" for the people who
just installed 2005.0, got a gcc update and suddenly everything broke.
the ~x86 version doesn't exhibit this problem, btw. stabilizing this
version might be prudent.
//Spider
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Tortured users / Laughing in pain
See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information.
end
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-10 21:22 ` Spider
@ 2005-04-10 22:16 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
2005-04-10 23:33 ` Mike Frysinger
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: M. Edward (Ed) Borasky @ 2005-04-10 22:16 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
Should I *not* emerge this gcc? I usually hold off on gcc updates when
I'm in the middle of other testing. Right now, I'm doing a lot of beta
testing with R and Atlas, so I held off when the latest gcc showed up
after "emerge sync".
Spider wrote:
>On Sun, 2005-04-10 at 16:22 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>
>
>>On Sunday 10 April 2005 11:31 am, Spider wrote:
>>
>>
>>> A touch late, but this uncovered a bug in libtool.
>>>
>>>
>>re-emerge libtool and it'll fix itself
>>
>>
>
>
>Yep, I know that.
>
>Unfortunately, thats -not- going to be a "solution" for the people who
>just installed 2005.0, got a gcc update and suddenly everything broke.
>
>the ~x86 version doesn't exhibit this problem, btw. stabilizing this
>version might be prudent.
>
>//Spider
>
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-10 21:22 ` Spider
2005-04-10 22:16 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
@ 2005-04-10 23:33 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-11 11:24 ` Francesco Riosa
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2005-04-10 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Sunday 10 April 2005 05:22 pm, Spider wrote:
> the ~x86 version doesn't exhibit this problem, btw. stabilizing this
> version might be prudent.
1.5.14 doesnt have any open issues for it so i've pushed it to stable
-mike
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-10 23:33 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2005-04-11 11:24 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 11:38 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 12:46 ` Mike Frysinger
0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Francesco Riosa @ 2005-04-11 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
Mike Frysinger wrote:
>On Sunday 10 April 2005 05:22 pm, Spider wrote:
>
>
>>the ~x86 version doesn't exhibit this problem, btw. stabilizing this
>>version might be prudent.
>>
>>
>
>1.5.14 doesnt have any open issues for it so i've pushed it to stable
>
>
emerge -pv gcc
[ebuild U ] sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1 [3.3.5-r1] (-altivec)
-bootstrap -boundschecking -build -debug -fortran -gcj -gtk -hardened
(-ip28) (-multilib) -multislot (-n32) (-n64) +nls -nocxx -objc -static
(-uclibc) 0 kB
[...]
* Configuring GCC with:
--enable-version-specific-runtime-libs
--prefix=/usr
--bindir=/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.3.5-20050130
--includedir=/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/include
--datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130
--mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/man
--infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/info
--with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/include/g++-v3
--host=i686-pc-linux-gnu
--disable-altivec
--enable-nls
--without-included-gettext
--with-system-zlib
--disable-checking
--disable-werror
--disable-libunwind-exceptions
--disable-multilib
--disable-libgcj
--enable-languages=c,c++
--enable-shared
--enable-threads=posix
--enable-__cxa_atexit
--enable-clocale=gnu
*** This configuration is not supported in the following subdirectories:
target-libffi target-boehm-gc target-zlib target-libjava
target-libf2c zlib fastjar target-libobjc
(Any other directories should still work fine.)
Created "Makefile" in /var/tmp/portage/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1/work/build
using "mt-frag"
gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No such file or directory
*** The command 'gcc -o conftest -O2 -march=i686 conftest.c' failed.
*** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
!!! ERROR: sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1 failed.
!!! Function gcc_do_configure, Line 1048, Exitcode 1
!!! failed to run configure
!!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status
message.
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-11 11:24 ` Francesco Riosa
@ 2005-04-11 11:38 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 12:46 ` Mike Frysinger
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Francesco Riosa @ 2005-04-11 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
Francesco Riosa wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
>
>> On Sunday 10 April 2005 05:22 pm, Spider wrote:
>>
>>
>>> the ~x86 version doesn't exhibit this problem, btw. stabilizing this
>>> version might be prudent.
>>>
>>
>>
>> 1.5.14 doesnt have any open issues for it so i've pushed it to stable
>>
>>
>
>
> emerge -pv gcc
> [ebuild U ] sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1 [3.3.5-r1] (-altivec)
> -bootstrap -boundschecking -build -debug -fortran -gcj -gtk -hardened
> (-ip28) (-multilib) -multislot (-n32) (-n64) +nls -nocxx -objc -static
> (-uclibc) 0 kB
>
> [...]
>
> * Configuring GCC with:
> --enable-version-specific-runtime-libs
> --prefix=/usr
> --bindir=/usr/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/3.3.5-20050130
>
> --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/include
> --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130
> --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/man
>
> --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/info
>
> --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.5-20050130/include/g++-v3
>
> --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu
> --disable-altivec
> --enable-nls
> --without-included-gettext
> --with-system-zlib
> --disable-checking
> --disable-werror
> --disable-libunwind-exceptions
> --disable-multilib
> --disable-libgcj
> --enable-languages=c,c++
> --enable-shared
> --enable-threads=posix
> --enable-__cxa_atexit
> --enable-clocale=gnu
>
> *** This configuration is not supported in the following subdirectories:
> target-libffi target-boehm-gc target-zlib target-libjava
> target-libf2c zlib fastjar target-libobjc
> (Any other directories should still work fine.)
> Created "Makefile" in
> /var/tmp/portage/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1/work/build using "mt-frag"
> gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No such file or directory
> *** The command 'gcc -o conftest -O2 -march=i686 conftest.c' failed.
> *** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
>
> !!! ERROR: sys-devel/gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1 failed.
> !!! Function gcc_do_configure, Line 1048, Exitcode 1
> !!! failed to run configure
> !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status
> message.
>
and this are the packages emerged few seconds before (gmt times)
Mon Apr 11 10:27:19 2005 >>> sys-apps/texinfo-4.8
Mon Apr 11 10:27:43 2005 >>> sys-devel/gcc-config-1.3.10-r2
Mon Apr 11 10:27:56 2005 >>> sys-devel/binutils-config-1.8-r2
Mon Apr 11 10:37:17 2005 >>> sys-devel/binutils-2.15.92.0.2-r7
can anyone explain me why updating this fundamentals packages is so
fragile also on a *stable* x86 installation ?
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* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-11 11:24 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 11:38 ` Francesco Riosa
@ 2005-04-11 12:46 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-11 13:22 ` Francesco Riosa
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mike Frysinger @ 2005-04-11 12:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Monday 11 April 2005 07:24 am, Francesco Riosa wrote:
> gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No such file or directory
run `binutils-config 1`
there's a bug open atm where portage doesnt seem to run pkg_postinst() for
some reason and thus when you upgrade your binutils, the proper symlinks
arent installed automatically
-mike
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* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-11 12:46 ` Mike Frysinger
@ 2005-04-11 13:22 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 14:06 ` Stefan Sperling
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Francesco Riosa @ 2005-04-11 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
Mike Frysinger wrote:
>On Monday 11 April 2005 07:24 am, Francesco Riosa wrote:
>
>
>>gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No such file or directory
>>
>>
>
>run `binutils-config 1`
>
>there's a bug open atm where portage doesnt seem to run pkg_postinst() for
>some reason and thus when you upgrade your binutils, the proper symlinks
>arent installed automatically
>-mike
>
>
Thank you for the answer, since I still didn't had time to fix it the
time for search is saved.
Anyway the question is a bit different:
There are "often" problem of various kind that regard the toolchain,
varying from linkage, paths, environmental variables ...
Everytime one of this happen users (and probably devs ;) have a Gentoo
in a quite unusable state.
My question is:
can we fight against this in any way ?
if yes what is needed (dev or portage or user side) ?
francesco
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* Re: [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable
2005-04-11 13:22 ` Francesco Riosa
@ 2005-04-11 14:06 ` Stefan Sperling
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Sperling @ 2005-04-11 14:06 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 03:22:38PM +0200, Francesco Riosa wrote:
> Anyway the question is a bit different:
> There are "often" problem of various kind that regard the toolchain,
> varying from linkage, paths, environmental variables ...
> Everytime one of this happen users (and probably devs ;) have a Gentoo
> in a quite unusable state.
> My question is:
> can we fight against this in any way ?
> if yes what is needed (dev or portage or user side) ?
More testing. I for one did not have a problem at all
upgrading to gcc-3.3.5.20050130-r1 on a stable system when mike
requested testing.
When it actually went stable, problems suddenly showed up on
other peoples' machines. Had they been testing as well, these
errors would have been caught before going stable.
One advantage (or, in this case, problem) of gentoo is that the
system is highly customizable. A lot of errors only show up in
certain configurations. So the more people test things and report
errors, the more stable the system (and the toolchain) becomes.
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2005-04-08 3:46 [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Mike Frysinger
2005-04-08 11:19 ` Dan Meltzer
2005-04-08 11:56 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-08 11:35 ` Ferris McCormick
2005-04-08 12:09 ` Stefan Sperling
2005-04-09 6:24 ` [gentoo-dev] List-Unsubscribe ren tie'nan
2005-04-08 12:00 ` [gentoo-dev] gcc-3.3.5.20050110-r1 for stable Stefan Sperling
2005-04-08 13:15 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-10 15:31 ` Spider
2005-04-10 20:22 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-10 21:22 ` Spider
2005-04-10 22:16 ` M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
2005-04-10 23:33 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-11 11:24 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 11:38 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 12:46 ` Mike Frysinger
2005-04-11 13:22 ` Francesco Riosa
2005-04-11 14:06 ` Stefan Sperling
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