[gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Christian Zoffoli]

Hi to all.
Is it possible to add partimage to the next live cds ?

Thanks,
Christian
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sun, 2005-03-13 at 14:44 +0100, Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> Hi to all.
> Is it possible to add partimage to the next live cds ?

Yes and no.  If you're looking for it on the minimal install CD, you'll
never find it.  The minimal CD is supposed to be exactly that, minimal.
I am not really accepting any new packages except network drivers.

That being said, partimage *is* on the experimental LiveCD which we will
be releasing somewhere near 2005.0 with the installer on it.

Also, gentoo-dev really is not the place for this.  You would be looking
for gentoo-releng, or more specifically, requests for things on the
installation media really should be sent via bugs.gentoo.org and
assigned to livecd@gentoo.org

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Christian Zoffoli]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-03-13 at 14:44 +0100, Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> 
>>Hi to all.
>>Is it possible to add partimage to the next live cds ?
> 
> 
> Yes and no.  If you're looking for it on the minimal install CD, you'll
> never find it.  The minimal CD is supposed to be exactly that, minimal.
> I am not really accepting any new packages except network drivers.

you are right but we can consider partimage like a recovering tool, and 
isn't so useful to have a backup without a cd media to restore it.
Sysrescuecd uses a partimage without some useful features like login and 
ssl, so it works only if you emerge partimage without these features 
(these options are hardcoded).

An alternative could be create a rescue livecd with partimage, bacula 
utils and so.


> That being said, partimage *is* on the experimental LiveCD which we will
> be releasing somewhere near 2005.0 with the installer on it.

ok

> Also, gentoo-dev really is not the place for this.  You would be looking
> for gentoo-releng, or more specifically, requests for things on the
> installation media really should be sent via bugs.gentoo.org and
> assigned to livecd@gentoo.org

now I know ;)


Christian
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> An alternative could be create a rescue livecd with partimage, bacula
> utils and so.

Let us know when you've got it ready. I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sun, 2005-03-13 at 18:40 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> > An alternative could be create a rescue livecd with partimage, bacula
> > utils and so.
> 
> Let us know when you've got it ready. I'm looking forward to it.

HAHAHAHAHA...

Anyway, though spyderous was joking somewhat, he does have a point.  We
really have no reason to produce one as part of the regular releases.  I
have thought about making one, just for kicks.  The primary reason for
not doing one is that SystemRescueCD already does this quite well.  This
is a niche where someone else has built on Gentoo's work and has come up
with a unique and usable product.  While I have no problem with someone
else within the Gentoo project using catalyst for this task, I don't see
a reason for one as part of the official releases.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Christian Zoffoli]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
[cut]
> HAHAHAHAHA...
> 
> Anyway, though spyderous was joking somewhat, he does have a point.  We
> really have no reason to produce one as part of the regular releases.  I
> have thought about making one, just for kicks.  The primary reason for
> not doing one is that SystemRescueCD already does this quite well.  This
> is a niche where someone else has built on Gentoo's work and has come up
> with a unique and usable product.  While I have no problem with someone
> else within the Gentoo project using catalyst for this task, I don't see
> a reason for one as part of the official releases.
> 

Sysrescuecd works only on x86, the ppc version is in beta from months 
and months and it doesn't work with a network backup solution like 
bacula or something similar (FYI projects like qtparted are officially 
death).

And I'm agree with many users that want a recovery solution integrated 
with the "install disk".


Christian

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[M. Edward (Ed) Borasky]

Christian Zoffoli wrote:

> (FYI projects like qtparted are officially death).

Well ... I'm not so sure about that. QTParted and its underlying parted 
do not work safely with NTFS or reiserfs. As far as I know, they work 
with ext2 and FAT32, and may work with ext3. That's it! Partition Magic, 
which is licensed, works with NTFS (but not reiserfs).

>
> And I'm agree with many users that want a recovery solution integrated 
> with the "install disk".

I've got a stack of "rescue CDs" -- Knoppix, Kanotix, Fedora Core 3 
rescue, etc. Most of the rescue tasks I need to get done can also be 
done by Damn Small and by the Gentoo LiveCD. The one I reach for, 
though, is Knoppix, because I have more experience with it.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Alec Warner]

Christian Zoffoli wrote:

> Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> [cut]
>
>> <snip>
>
>
> Sysrescuecd works only on x86, the ppc version is in beta from months 
> and months and it doesn't work with a network backup solution like 
> bacula or something similar (FYI projects like qtparted are officially 
> death).
>
> And I'm agree with many users that want a recovery solution integrated 
> with the "install disk".
>
>
> Christian
>
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

One of the things I enjoy about Gentoo is how small the install disk is, 
that I can quickly nab 50 megs and burn it in about 5 minutes, compared 
to say FC3 and it's 5 CD's.  Install disks for Installing, Recovery 
disks for Recovery :)  There are a lot of CD's that are great for 
recovery ( albiet I will admit not many for alt arches ).  No one is 
stopping you from rolling your own debian variation that runs on 
multiplatform.  I'm all for more tools that make the install easier, but 
space is at a premium, especially with gentoo-installer and X on the 
liveCD ( when is that coming out *grin* ). 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Christian Zoffoli]

Alec Warner wrote:
[cut]
> One of the things I enjoy about Gentoo is how small the install disk is, 
> that I can quickly nab 50 megs and burn it in about 5 minutes, compared 
> to say FC3 and it's 5 CD's.  Install disks for Installing, Recovery 
> disks for Recovery :)  There are a lot of CD's that are great for 
> recovery ( albiet I will admit not many for alt arches ).  No one is 
> stopping you from rolling your own debian variation that runs on 
> multiplatform.  I'm all for more tools that make the install easier, but 
> space is at a premium, especially with gentoo-installer and X on the 
> liveCD ( when is that coming out *grin* ). --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

but I'm talking about adding a couple of MB of tools, it's not 
comparable to X + ....

Christian






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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> but I'm talking about adding a couple of MB of tools, it's not
> comparable to X + ....

Slippery slope. A couple MB here, a couple there ... suddenly the
minimal CD that Chris has worked so hard to drop size from is bloated up
again.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Sven Vermeulen]

Donnie Berkholz wrote:
[... rescue CD with partimage and other tools ...]
> Let us know when you've got it ready. I'm looking forward to it.

Please bear in mind that partimage, ghost4linux, g4u and similar 
projects are all rather slow-paced in their development (if not stalled 
indefinitely). And it's not because they're finished - they're not.

Wkr,
	Sven Vermeulen

-- 
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  (oo)                                      Sven Vermeulen
  (__)   http://www.gentoo.org              Documentation & PR
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 21:38 -0500, Alec Warner wrote:
> One of the things I enjoy about Gentoo is how small the install disk is, 
> that I can quickly nab 50 megs and burn it in about 5 minutes, compared 
> to say FC3 and it's 5 CD's.  Install disks for Installing, Recovery 
> disks for Recovery :)  There are a lot of CD's that are great for 

This is pretty much our driving force.  The Release Engineering group is
only interested in building release materials.  It isn't our job to care
about backup/recovery, really.  You are more than free to create your
own recovery CD for any architecture you want, and we'll even help you
with any problems you have.  That being said, we are not going to add
more packages to the installation media.  We are looking to reduce the
size of the media, rather than increase it.

> recovery ( albiet I will admit not many for alt arches ).  No one is 
> stopping you from rolling your own debian variation that runs on 

Why bother with Debian?  You could use catalyst and do it all from
Gentoo.

> multiplatform.  I'm all for more tools that make the install easier, but 
> space is at a premium, especially with gentoo-installer and X on the 
> liveCD ( when is that coming out *grin* ).

Never.  *grin*

I guess this is where I give my standard answer.  The experimental
LiveCD, which has no real ties to the actual 2005.0 release, will be
done when it is done, and will be released shortly after that. ;]

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 04:07 +0100, Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> but I'm talking about adding a couple of MB of tools, it's not 
> comparable to X + ....

We're also to the point where we count the size of the installation
media in bytes.  A couple of MB of additional space requirements that
will only be used by a very small percentage of our user base (I would
say less than 1%) and that has nothing to do with installation is
unnecessary.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 20:17 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Slippery slope. A couple MB here, a couple there ... suddenly the
> minimal CD that Chris has worked so hard to drop size from is bloated up
> again.

Exactly.

Nevermind that we've added about 10MB to this release already.  Of
course, that is to add better support for lvm2 and dmraid, plus a bunch
of extra network drivers.  These are things that would be used during an
installation, so they fit the requirements, but one of my first tasks
after this release is to start working towards reducing the size of the
minimal install CD (again).  My personal goal is to fit the entire
contents of the CD on a 32MB USB key.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Partimage on the livecd

[Christian Zoffoli]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 04:07 +0100, Christian Zoffoli wrote:
> 
>>but I'm talking about adding a couple of MB of tools, it's not 
>>comparable to X + ....
> 
> 
> We're also to the point where we count the size of the installation
> media in bytes.  A couple of MB of additional space requirements that
> will only be used by a very small percentage of our user base (I would
> say less than 1%) and that has nothing to do with installation is
> unnecessary.

ok ok
...the right way is the second one ...create another live cd only for 
recovering ;-)


Christian
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