From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29587 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2004 12:01:18 +0000 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (156.56.111.197) by lists.gentoo.org with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 7 Dec 2004 12:01:18 +0000 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([156.56.111.196] helo=parrot.gentoo.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1Cbe1u-0002xO-LP for arch-gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:01:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 4131 invoked by uid 89); 7 Dec 2004 12:01:18 +0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 22688 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2004 12:01:17 +0000 Message-ID: <41B59B88.8040501@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:01:12 +0100 From: Simon Stelling Organization: Gentoo Foundation User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (X11/20041123) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ivan Yosifov CC: gentoo-dev References: <1102417943.27228.8.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1102417943.27228.8.camel@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigA15C7453A06E53C294BBC4B1" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server1.cyon.ch X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - gentoo.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Too many mailing lists X-Archives-Salt: 73a2c04b-20c5-4d7a-aa66-1316e28b613e X-Archives-Hash: 346f878262b9fd1eac74eb8c7952e4a3 --------------enigA15C7453A06E53C294BBC4B1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ivan, Ivan Yosifov wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > First of all - this is just an idea, if my impressions are wrong - > pardon. > It is my impression that gentoo has way too many mailing lists wich by > themselves are not very active. For example I am a > gentoo-desktop-research subscriber for mounths and have not recived a > single message. Yes, we have a lot of mailing lists. No, most of them aren't that active, but i don't care if there is much traffic. I fact, i thank God there is not so much traffic. I receive about 120 Mails (spam not counted) per day (all gentoo-related), and about 110 are relevant to me. I really don't like the idea of receiving 250 Mails of which 110 are relevant to me. > I further believe that developer issues are always just developer > issues. A java-plugin can expose a browser bug. A ppc specific problem > my be a bug in the common kernel source. There is little reason for > having a dozen separate lists when the issues discussed on these lists > are related. As of now for a developer to have a full grasp of what > ideas are flying about and what problems bother the users most he has to > subscribe to ALL lists which is a lot of subscibe-me mails. If you, as a PPC user have a security problem with a java plugin, it's quite easy: File a bug, assign it to the herd you think it is the most important to that bug and CC the others. Another example: We often get bugs like "app-foo/bar-1.0 does not work on amd64" that are assigned to amd64@gentoo.org. After having a look at the error log i see that it is most likely a arch-independend bug and reassign it to the right herd/guy and CC amd64@. > Imagine a PPC user with security problem in the java plugin. Where can > he discus his problem ? On gentoo-desktop, gentoo-security, gentoo-dev, > gentoo-ppc-dev, gentoo-ppc-user, gentoo-java or somewhere else? Having > so many lists with so deeply connected topics is confusing and a waste > of valuable communication resources. I agree, there are cases that are deeply connected, but i don't think a gentoo-problems list would make it better, because you just can't read every mail you get. You read what seems important to you, and that's it. I don't want to filter 90% of the mails i get out and read the oder 10%, finding out that only 5% are really what i wanted to read ;) > I propose the following. There should be a gentoo-announce list for > GLSA,release announces and whatever everyone must be aware of. There > should be a gentoo-dev for all development related issues (users having > problems go here). And there should be a gentoo-user for users that need > guidance (like how do I do this,where is that...). *This* gentoo-dev isn't there for helping users with their problems. The only purpose is to improve Gentoo. The respective mailing lists (gentoo-ppc-user, gentoo-java and so on) are. > Naturally the traffic on the dev and user list can get high. But no one > forces the PPC dev to read the X.org threads so this should not be a > problem. Sure. But it forces the PPC dev to filter them out, and that takes more time the more emails you get about stuff you aren't interested in. I really don't care about java, and i don't care about hardened in general (well, i care about them if it's a amd64-specific problem :)) In general, I agree with you, but I don't think that your solution will bring us the expected improvements. Greetings, blubb --------------enigA15C7453A06E53C294BBC4B1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBtZuIJI7I7YbPEuoRApa/AJ9Lo/kV/SVObgn1GJjUDtfsIGeqoQCdFqZk SeBaX1HlsVpzhRpyar1yMuc= =9wbi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigA15C7453A06E53C294BBC4B1--