From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18330 invoked from network); 19 May 2004 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (156.56.111.197) by parrot.ussg.indiana.edu with SMTP; 19 May 2004 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from parrot.ussg.indiana.edu ([156.56.111.196] helo=parrot.gentoo.org) by smtp.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BQVJ0-0000UE-GY for arch-gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 19 May 2004 17:56:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 16829 invoked by uid 89); 19 May 2004 17:56:38 +0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 20603 invoked from network); 19 May 2004 17:56:37 +0000 Message-ID: <40AB9FD3.2070000@efn.org> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:56:35 -0400 From: Allen Dale Parker User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5+ (Windows/20040403) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <200405180034.30388.stuart@gentoo.org> <200405181845.58966.stuart@gentoo.org> <20040518201628.703a7b34@sven.genone.homeip.net> <200405182108.42231.stuart@gentoo.org> <1084966200.9124.18.camel@rivendell> <20040519160613.GA17836@cerberus.oppresses.us> <1412.213.101.226.144.1084987594.squirrel@TesterServ.TesterNet> In-Reply-To: <1412.213.101.226.144.1084987594.squirrel@TesterServ.TesterNet> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.83.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-web-user] Hardened PHP now in Gentoo X-Archives-Salt: a4592c68-456a-4e3e-be18-1685bdb38530 X-Archives-Hash: 0ab4e8a85d2212bb8b02991de1aad372 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Olivier Crete wrote: |>On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 01:30:00PM +0200, foser wrote: |> |>>On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 21:08 +0100, Stuart Herbert wrote: |>>Choice is an illusion, if you there's too much choice it is no use to |>>anyone anymore, because nobody really knows what it is all about. This |>>is already the case with the loads of USE flags/portage options/etc. |>>we have. Gentoo shouldn't be about choice for the sake of it, it |>>should be about simplicity/managability : stuff that works. It's a |>>trade-off. |>> |>>I wasn't too happy with the introducation of local USE flags for just |>>the reasons that are becoming a problem now. Too much flags, everybody |>>adds them at will without good reasons. We used to just say to people |>>who wanted a specific (rare) set-up that they could easily edit the |>>ebuild themselves to their need, but nowadays it seems we have to hold |>>hands all the time and add complexity for nothing. That's good for |>>nobody really. The installation manual used to be like 5 pages, by now |>>it's a book of it's own per arch. I don't think that's a good thing |>>and we should be really, really careful about what we can do to stop |>>this movement. |>> |>>- foser |> |>The users seem to be perfectly happy with having a maximum of choice |>via local USE flags. Most people are also okay with the handbook. So |>what's the problem, exactly? Should we force everyone to do what _you_ |>want rather than what _they_ want? | | | There is at least one other guy who thinks that the handbook has gotten | way too long (me)...And foser is right on choice, too much is worst that too little, because | you end up not being able to find out howto where to configure stuff.. | Gentoo is all about choice and choice is good.. But I dont want to have to | go thourhg 800 use flags before I can install a gentoo system.. I used to | be able to run ufed and set all of the use flags that I wanted for a | system... I tried doing that yesterday.. the list has just gotten out of | proportion. | Would keeping global USE flags USE and swapping current local USE flags over to local_USE solve any of these problems? I am also of the camp that thinks that the amount of USE flags has gotten out of hand. My poor router is a 1Ghz Via C3-2, originally installed with 1.4. When I first bootstrapped that system, I had less than 10 USE flags in my make.conf. I now have over 25 and yet MORE are being added on an almost daily basis because my "old" USE flags just don't cut it anymore. I can't get the features I want without adding 50 more USE flags and that's a little ridiculous. I don't need a global USE flag for every multimedia codec known to man. I've been wondering lately if the gentoo "server" project has gotten anywhere, because MAYBE they've cut some of this cruft. I don't mind editing ebuilds. I DO mind my make.conf splitting at the seams. I DO mind my make.conf having a USE="---" that's about 3 lines long wrapped at 1280x1024 (vga=0x31b). Gentoo is a great distribution, because it does what I want it to when I want it to. Instead of adding more USE flags for things that can be handled in other ways (as per caleb's email), let's work on THINNING them down to a reasonable level. If this means we need to make another USE type flag definition, so be it. *BUT* when the gimp ebuilds haven't been touched in almost a month (2.0.1 has been out since 04-17 and STILL isn't in portage), other ebuilds are falling out of date, I'm SURE that we can find more useful things to do than adding more USE flags. - -- Allen Parker GPG KeyID: 35544083 GPG FP: E628 7310 DE68 321A 933A 5DD1 C831 005C 3554 4083 infowolfe@irc.freenode.net #/tmp #gentoo-dev #gentoo-hardened infowolfe@irc.oftc.net #vserver -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAq5/TyDEAXDVUQIMRAtLeAJwLm1IiA09dYhR71Y/AlMMskNmDNgCfQ/WO c/ZubD/1DQXCpGN4WXr9Ko4= =53L9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list