From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1461384B4 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 03:56:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E4D721C04A; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 03:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com (mail-pa0-f48.google.com [209.85.220.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4464F21C001 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 03:56:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so175585322pab.0 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:56:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=be-evil-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type; bh=psP7yuyJJgia+w2IDyNN5GZuqStqERq5zPqqhSjphN4=; b=kD3GShJtQ/x0PkEPKyk5R0kESmW9UnedyFm7jJZZQ5ptkkVBGQGMLpy3GG7344QGdG f+F80vrfzextwU5ArmM4MJO59UDwRNTCwpgminew+UG8suw75dIBysQMudpS9k6InRJr liHMCf2oacslQW7zdvuZh2DT+cmIvcNI0i7gxj0thFXTXveGjznIAc9i/pPt7uEehkAG Qdz6UggjPf7litDD/Acvn7sOyBBxuwiQg+9cgs48XyjN8923BrlxPkRuVZms5lsrqFmR 5VBgmAfK5evCuCC5QcRm8XTyNvVyXtyScoMMaE5SRRY4R2k1PyBZ//pG0g8tZRZya9gp EKjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-type; bh=psP7yuyJJgia+w2IDyNN5GZuqStqERq5zPqqhSjphN4=; b=DLgCO7Xa/2RRo6uRPb2QJsHeycHqBn0759oBrkxVs8oMniq3UthWwDdNIvr7Yi2MkV HFobZP+uXFkHStNwj7ACGo0ijkkBYYpa9h0UzNtx3bhjY45QHUlDJb+O9dMtHiPlvc3i t1qq3BvnoW2swqeobdmMEM+AZugcllTP5nXp5YeJedfowv7sYuZYZyrFtsbAeJ1K1lSS HWDV2+iiDooEHoFJw7a49+EHNWFVWOTf0rY/0Twk2MtJJbfuAvp/l+3bZ5wYKypEGRHd rx+nYI1wWeaK9cwyZUjAbvR5yfEWUE9Jsm/vUknAzKp8f150eR2Llk2w36+2BNxTYshK Ckgw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmqp8y/+Ro+FfwVq2eLIZl2zMJayCCVetUYqDUfVju6n0epDAOASzbN27F2c5CiXdwMvOvu X-Received: by 10.98.17.152 with SMTP id 24mr67497312pfr.41.1448855766200; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:56:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from moneypit.localnet ([2601:645:4000:4100:b561:42df:75d1:5275]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u76sm47460749pfa.88.2015.11.29.19.56.05 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:56:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Gregory M. Turner" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-dev] impending c++11 clusterfuck? Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:56:04 -0800 Message-ID: <4065232.vgWU8t9PnH@moneypit> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (Linux/4.1.12-aufs-gmt-00; KDE/4.14.14; x86_64; ; ) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Archives-Salt: cc8ec1f6-1030-40d9-addd-763e7ad346fc X-Archives-Hash: ed6c5bf3ed0e26de6ad3a2fea37d3694 I'm quoting myself from bug #566328 here. These were off-the-cuff remarks that got away from me and became a call-to-arms... (In reply to Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny from comment #7) > This is never this simple. C++11 can change the ABI. So the point kin= da is, > we need to ensure that all C++ libraries in a depgraph use the same C= ++ > version. This is pretty awful when you really think about it. I feel like I'm watching a train-wreck in super slow motion. I'm not sure we're taking this seriously enough -- sooner or later it seems destined to become a major clusterfuck if we don't do something proactive about it now while the drawing-board is relatively uncluttered. The only thing I can think of that has this kind of two-way depgraph magic property are the major "abi" USE_EXPAND values (multilib-build and python-r1, in other words). But those rely on fancy framework-generated USE-flag deps, which seem like overkill and likely to incur unjustifiable user-experience-costs. Perhaps a solution to this cxx11 clusterfuck can be found that works more like perl? By that I mean, pick your poison (respectively, your cxx11 ABI of preference or your major perl version of choice), rely on inbuilt portage features do the trick most of the time, and, when it breaks, run "magically-fix-everything.sh," grab a caffeinated beverage or three and fire up your favorite VOD client while the mess gets magically cleaned up by robots somehow. -gmt Greg Turner gmt@be-evil.net