From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346521382C5 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:26:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C7BFE07FA; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:26:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smarthost01a.mail.zen.net.uk (smarthost01a.mail.zen.net.uk [212.23.1.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02C8AE07D3 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:26:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [62.3.120.142] (helo=NeddySeagoon_Static) by smarthost01a.mail.zen.net.uk with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1epdaf-0007Dm-94 for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:26:29 +0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:26:08 +0000 From: Roy Bamford Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Questions on overlays, repositories and PMS To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: (from michael.lienhardt@laposte.net on Sat Feb 24 01:32:21 2018) X-Mailer: Balsa 2.5.3 Message-Id: <3XX9asnRGxSGX0PEfaZ5ve@EXnwKtXhR0lz9w6RKZAxc> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Lhq4vrbCc1mD4Af2lG7+" X-Originating-smarthost01a-IP: [62.3.120.142] Feedback-ID: 62.3.120.142 X-Archives-Salt: 07baf1ea-7d42-474e-b163-0022060f29ba X-Archives-Hash: 4b3610ca83e346a08bd70ce03ecae20d --=-Lhq4vrbCc1mD4Af2lG7+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018.02.24 01:32, Michael Lienhardt wrote: >=20 >=20 > Il 23/02/2018 20:37, Alec Warner ha scritto: > > My general observation is that Gentoo is not successful as an > organization about deprecating and removing things. One area where > Gentoo has done well is in EAPI and in PMS itself, with mostly-clear > versioning and standards and whatnot. But in general if something > worked 15 years ago, it probably still works today (doubly so for > sys-apps/portage). > >=20 > > There is a different question when building a tool like yours if it > is worth the effort to support things that are 15 years old and are > possibly not used (particularly in cases where functionality was > replaced). I'd recommend starting with the basic implementation and > adding support for the 'older' formats when users ask for them; but > this is mostly a trade-off in efforts. If your goal is to build=20 > > a "100% compatible" tool then you will probably need to support > these edge cases. >=20 > You have a very good point. > I'd like to be complete (it's a side effect of working in formal > methods), but it's quite unrealistic as I am the only developer in > this project, and it's true that there are few technical design > choices that were made in portage that I'd be happier not to > implement. > I'd like to implement the /etc/portage/repos.conf system to remove as > many hard coded references to /usr/portage in my code as possible. > Moreover, the /etc/portage/repos.conf system looks nice, modular with > explicit dependencies and it almost unifies all the repositories (I > don't really understand the need of a DEFAULT section). >=20 > If possible, I'd rather avoid implementing things that are deprecated, > but like you pointed out, few are (portage seems to be always > expanding with new/alternative functionalities). > The ones that are, like the /etc/portage/package.keywords file, seem > to be still used (I've got a request to support it in my > get_installation.sh script). > Additionally, there are two systems that I did not want to implement > but had to: the IUSE_IMPLICIT and USE_EXPAND. > I didn't find any good documentation on these systems (nor the PMS nor > https://dev.gentoo.org/%7Ezmedico/portage/doc/man/portage.5.html are > very clear on the subject -- the PMS is still clearer), I tested a lot > and looked at the portage implementation... > I don't understand the reason to implement these systems with bash > variables expanded with prefixes, while many of the USE flag > manipulation is done with dedicated files (use.*, package.use.*). > It really felt like an old design choice kept there because it worked, > but which could be simplified. >=20 > On a similar topic, does anyone still have USE-related variables in > his /etc/env.d folder? (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/USE_ORDER) > It seems to me that portage's current effort is to have all > configuration files in /etc/portage or in the profile. >=20 > Best, > Michael Lienhardt >=20 >=20 >=20 Michael, 'Support' can be as simple as nagging the user to move with the=20 times and failing.=20 I suspect that many older systems (including mine) are not updated because it still works. crossdev users may be familiar with this approach.=20 --=20 Regards, Roy Bamford (Neddyseagoon) a member of elections gentoo-ops forum-mods = --=-Lhq4vrbCc1mD4Af2lG7+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8iqN0lnEsghF0U/tVl/TNarc5wkFAlqRoDAACgkQVl/TNarc 5wlrRg/+NK1AEv0jc741hGewGqUFEsMBfnCGg6gdtb9OslI1ep1OIdizzdaO1FyH bgwR2Bh91044xiTUoz59YeFq6NI3O7jsWNBTAxV0YvuXiQ/U3rlQS07PrraD+ELF nrw2h3vbniuq36ZHmFpvLaqBYKxYcJhA21/bZtygn32ejKjYtia8i60xNsqYXJYq ftK+oCEHi1JbydrzPHbQ1pDUda/+c/TWluun+2+BBUnVUu87DztwlxA0EZiNY5Z3 nWZmdh8ejWuoMFvsgzsNELPxBIhQQo8ZuzPHhjqbXJ2R+pwBeUbm1uH5gJ8oFBkI AlXdFJnfebaXG2GriqG46e5KJhXK2hyWlvyYNBxVgKaqLKXTIi6M/rwTChVw+Ytf AnJcbT728raif7GDxpmCsTDob4Z/CQPSqhRu5gfvC10zr0hv0SR+KY+ziIzleZ89 5zVsk2YM9Ux9Kqrae2Kqqo/N0LKzzdXa+xOzTVaRC73jAG/p7szOHWdoTiGEfXT7 J4LzHZBYUu+exgmlbwscObJe/BiCu+AWHjhnVqyOrShtz4zSKuyO0GTDn7kbMW/n LohkiFY+gcpYk4xP81yO0hrCTZjB+LZjpK3+Mq1H0MAw6M/GbdN1XLaLw3X6KDvo s3qVcfMpmuLyH9G1fLR2/oVdjR2WoawuDBHiKcfUFU70MjRar64= =tmvM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Lhq4vrbCc1mD4Af2lG7+--