Re: [gentoo-dev] Vanilla behaviour in Gentoo Linux (long email)

[Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org>]

I'll try to be as short as possible

Dhruba Bandopadhyay wrote:
> Hello

hi, everything following is just what I think, feel free to tell that 
I'm not gentle enough.


> 
> --------------------------------
> Scenario 1: slocate and updatedb
> --------------------------------
> 

If you use cron you have some default cronjobs...
> 1) Remove slocate from base system
No, locate is useful and commonly provided as default on every other 
distro/os I used in the past
> 2) Remove makewhatis from daily cron duties
up to you
> 3) Remove updatedb from daily cron duties
up to you again
> 
> I'm probably not alone in the fact that I never use slocate and given 
> fixed location of package files and other files in gentoo finding things 
> is easier than other distros especially given qpkg -l and etcat -f.
> 
I think that you are quite alone, locate is QUITE useful if you have 
many files and many places in which they may stay. I'm not writing about 
system file as applications, I mean user files (as in work / study / 
whatever) . Ok, that is a matter of use of the system but overall I 
expect people to have more personal data than system data.

> -------------------------------------
> Scenario 2: baselayout and /etc/issue
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 1) Eliminate /etc/issue and rename it if it must be added to the system
No, that is a common file and I'd expect people complaining about if got 
removed. The issue file and motd file are useful on a multi user system.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Scenario 3: vanilla kernels and development sources
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 1) Provide the kernel in vanilla fashion without customisations
already present
> 2) Reconsider using the alsa and vanilla use flags here as they violates 
> the rule of using use flags only for compile time switches.
could you explain more? I'd like to know more about that.
> 
> -------------------------------------
> scenario 4: kernel sources on portage
> -------------------------------------
> $ emerg -qs sources
> <snip>
> $ emerge -qs sources | grep -c '^*'
> 38
> 
> 1) Create gentoo patchsets only for finished releases and separate into 
> different sources
No there are MANY different needs and the 40 (will be) possible sources 
are here to fullfill them.
> 2) Provide vanilla kernels as unaltered, unpatched and uncustomised 
> sources just as they would be if done manually
They are present and you asked it before.
> 3) Agree on prerequisites that must be fulfilled prior to adding new 
> kernels-sources or in fact any new packages onto portage.
Already present currently we are testing and polling people about 2.6 
ppc kernel, and it is needed if we want to start working on 2.6 livecds, 
ppc970 support and other nice points in our todo...
> 
> -------------------------
> Scenario 5: Ebuild speech
> -------------------------> 
> My requests:
> 
> 1) Eliminate all use of sleep in ebuilds
no if they are present there is a reason...
> 2) Eliminate all use of beeps via echo -ne "\a"
same as 1
> 3) Write eclasses or modifications to portage which control logging and 
> display - I have even written a bash wrapper (unfinished) around emerge 
> which does log all output and displays all messages at end of every 
> emerge separated according to package names.
sounds interesting
> 4) If there absolutely has to be sound it must be done through 
> FEATURES="sound".  FEATURES="notify" can be used for message waits if 
> absolutely necessary.  It's a shame that finally EULA's have made 
> ebuilds interactive and sound and message waits are further increasing 
> merge time
there is work under the hood to mitigate the interactive problems.
> 
> Overall, I would say vanilla behaviour should always be exhibited by 
> default in all aspects of the operating system in favour of user 
> preference or dev preference.  Focus should be on instructing the user 
> on how to make a change rather than making the change and expecting the 
> user to reverse it. Exceptions are where the change is vanilla in itself 
> like providing stock kernel configs to newbie users as genkernel does.
I think that you missed the vanilla-sources...

lu_zero@utopia lu_zero $ esearch vanilla
[ Results for search key : vanilla ]
[ Applications found : 2 ]

*  sys-kernel/vanilla-sources
       Latest version available: 2.4.22
       Latest version installed: 2.4.22
       Size of downloaded files: 28,836 kB
       Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/
       Description: Full sources for the Linux kernel

*  sys-kernel/vanilla-prepatch-sources
       Latest version available: 2.4.23_pre7
       Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
       Size of downloaded files: 30,802 kB
       Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/
       Description: Full sources for the prerelease vanilla Linux kernel


> 
> Please discuss as you wish.  I would be grateful if these issues were 
> paid some attention and I look forward to receiving feedback whether you 
> share the same experience or have opposing views.  If any of them should 
> be filed as bugs

this is _MY_ opinion about the whole issue, sorry if I sound arsh.
You have raised a good point on point 5, the others looks to _me_ non 
issues: if you use cron you should know how to configure it, if you are 
trying kernel I expect you to have many linux-${VERSION}-${treeversion} 
dir.

PS: ok, a nice -n 20 if not already present may be added to make the 
procedure less painful

> 
> with sincere regards
> Dhruba Bandopadhyay

hi

lu

-- 
Luca Barbato
Developer
Gentoo Linux				http://www.gentoo.org/~lu_zero




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