From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <gentoo-dev-return-5873-arch-gentoo-dev=gentoo.org@gentoo.org> Received: (qmail 24341 invoked by uid 1002); 21 Aug 2003 05:36:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-dev@gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev-unsubscribe@gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-dev-subscribe@gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-dev.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 4508 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2003 05:35:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3F445A5D.4080301@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:36:29 -0400 From: Stewart Honsberger <blkdeath@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030709 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luke-Jr <luke-jr@gentoo.org> Cc: foser <foser@foser.dyn.warande.net>, gentoo-dev@gentoo.org References: <20030819112719.3ff4da41.svyatogor@gentoo.org> <200308191911.33863.svyatogor@gentoo.org> <1061309939.28350.6.camel@rivendell> <200308200116.33551.luke-jr@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <200308200116.33551.luke-jr@gentoo.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Replacing fdisk with cfdisk in X-Archives-Salt: 282ad9c1-3f29-4888-aad9-93b5ff770bd1 X-Archives-Hash: 849e8abf75e46984974f7031150ec0a4 Luke-Jr wrote: > I think the point is, the docs only explain how to do with fdisk what can also > be done with cfdisk and cfdisk is easier to use. Might as well explain cfdisk > and if someone wants to use fdisk, they should already know how anyway. I'm noticing the start of a slippery slope, here. Gentoo's installation is great because it is simple, elegant, and powerful. It's not cluttered with every "user-friendly" (read: attempt at idiot-proof) tool known to man. Gentoo sets a bar at a certain height, and expects users to acheive that height in order to get their system off the ground. How many times are we going to lower the bar? As with every "user-friendly" system, eventually along comes a better idiot. fdisk is a simple, standard, powerful partition table editor. I've used Linux's fdisk to repair botched tables more times than I can count. Instructions for use can be very simple. The last patch of the slope is the Vi(M) discussion. "Vi is hard" seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. Vi can be summed-up in half a dozen lines; vi <filename> - Load file for editing /<keyword> - search :w - Write file to disk :q - Quit Commands can be combined, eg; :wq - Write file to disk and Quit Five lines and users have all the knowledge they need to create / edit their base system files. A few more short lines and you can explain (global) search/replace to give them more advanced functionality. I've been seeing a lot of talk, even since the day I first wandered into Gentoo's user support areas (IRC, forums, mailing lists) about 'graphical installation front-ends', install scripts, etc. Gentoo has always been a great tool for getting users accustomed to their system from the inside out. Do we want to remain that way, or do we want to become "Just Another (Half-Assed) User-Friendly Linux Distro"? The likes of RedHat, Mandrake, and SuSE have fully graphical installation utilities that make the Windows install look complicated; five clicks and an hour later you're staring at your gorgeous KDE desktop. If we're going to aim towards user-friendlines on installation, we're already several years behind right out of the starting gate. Can we possibly compete with that? (Not to mention their respective corporate funding) I'm of the opinion that we have to set barriers; lines in the sand, if you will. "This is how friendly we will become" and stick to those boundaries. This would, of course, also help with the consistency issues that are raised weekly on this list. ;> -- Stewart Honsberger http://blackdeath.snerk.org/ "Capitalists, by nature, organize to protect themselves. -- Geeks, by nature, resist organizaion." -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list