From: Brad Laue <brad@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-core@gentoo.org
Cc: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part IIa.
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:24:33 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3F141CB1.70704@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030715094234.6f6f2636.zhen@gentoo.org>
John Davis wrote:
> Good day everyone: First, I would like to thank all of those who have
> participated in this conversation, and lambaste those who have
> decided to start a flame war. In order for *anything* to get figured
> out, it is the latter that need time to discuss all avenues
> rationally.
Fair enough. ;)
>
> Step back for a minute and recognize the ramifications of those
> numbers. The product that we baby and work on is used by over a
> _quarter of a million_ people. Over a _quarter of a million_ people
> rely on our QA procedure for stable packages, our security, our
> openness. No matter what your political philosophy, this fact should
> awe you.
I think this is the crux of all our concern, all management and
organisational decisions revolve around QA, among other primary concerns
like architecture and so on.
My opinion is that QA procedures can be created without forming a
government of sorts, or creating a political landscape. There are
development cultures which succesfully separate the issues surrounding
architecture, financing and future directions within the distribution
from the QA process, by placing it on the outskirts of 'governance', and
I do think we would be wise to do the same.
> So how can me still deliver the same quality product to all of these
> people? Organization, rules, and voting, to name a few. I referenced
> Debian because they have an exceptional model that is in place and
> working. Yes, I know that Debian is not bleeding edge and their
> releases take forever. Think though, have you ever heard a complaint
> about Debian's stability, not only in Debian Linux, but in their
> management as well?
Debian may be stable, but Woody's sheer age really does indicate that
something is wrong with their development model. I don't imagine
suggesting a faster paced release model to their core developers would
be met with much openness, nor would it be put to a vote. FreeBSD and
RedHat, to name two, have live package build systems (ports/rawhide
respectively) and cut a release from these every four months on the dot
with impeccable QA. I don't think I could suggest such a thing to Debian
developers without being laughed out of the discussion.
Another member of the previous thread mentioned the Linux kernel, if
briefly. Look at how well it works in its development model. A core
group of members make decisions as to where the kernel will be in 1, 5,
10 years, and the rest of the process looks, to the outside world,
almost entirely haphazard. There is no need for constitutions or
elections or a legal department, and yet Linux is thriving and growing
at an extraordinary rate. And it has few enough QA problems that fortune
100 corporations use it!
It is my contention that the development culture *creates* the product.
I believe Debian is what it is now because of the way it is managed, and
Linux is what it is now because of the way *it* is managed.
If I seem staunchly opposed to introducing Debian concepts to Gentoo,
it's because I am. ;)
My intention though, is not to attempt to close the discussion. If
through the process an outcome can be reached which seems reasonable to
all sides, all the better.
Cheers,
Brad
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-07-15 15:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-07-15 13:42 [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part IIa John Davis
[not found] ` <1058280489.2910.27.camel@biproc>
2003-07-15 15:06 ` John Davis
2003-07-15 16:15 ` Grant Goodyear
2003-07-15 15:24 ` Brad Laue [this message]
2003-07-15 17:44 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] " John Davis
2003-07-15 17:46 ` Martin, Stephen
2003-07-15 17:47 ` John Davis
2003-07-15 19:09 ` [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] " Stewart Honsberger
2003-07-15 19:23 ` [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part III? Daniel Robbins
2003-07-15 20:27 ` John Davis
2003-07-16 0:30 ` Daniel Robbins
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