[gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Andreas Sturmlechner]

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Title: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind
Author: Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted: 2019-10-31
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0
Display-If-Installed: sys-auth/consolekit
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/alpha/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4t/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4t/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv5te/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv5te/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv6j/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv6j/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv7a/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv7a/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm64/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm64/17.0/desktop/plasma
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/hppa/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/ia64/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/m68k/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc32/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc64/17.0/32bit-userland/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc64/17.0/64bit-userland/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sh/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sparc/17.0/64ul/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sparc/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop
Display-If-Profile: default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop/plasma

ConsoleKit2 is unmaintained upstream for almost two years [1]. There are many 
longstanding bugs and papercuts with consumers that aren't being fixed, not 
least because these code paths receive very little testing.

Enter the elogind project [2], which is a standalone logind implementation 
based on systemd code, currently maintained by a fellow Gentoo user. We have 
had sys-auth/elogind available in Gentoo since the beginning of 2017, and 
meanwhile it has gained support [3] in KDE Plasma, Gnome [4], Cinnamon, MATE 
and Xfce, as well as most other former consolekit consumers.

Consequently, the desktop profile is switching away from consolekit to elogind. 
Users of sys-auth/consolekit who selected a different profile should consider 
doing the same. A guide is available [5]. Migration is easy, but if run from 
within a consolekit session that session may become broken.

Rely either on the profile, or set USE="elogind -consolekit" in make.conf 
yourself. Make sure there is no consolekit debris in /etc/portage/package.use:

# grep -R consolekit /etc/portage/package.use

Rebuild all affected consumers and remove sys-auth/consolekit:

# emerge --ask --changed-use --deep world
# emerge --unmerge consolekit

Optional, but recommended in case of trouble such as missing reboot/shutdown 
capabilities in the DM:

# rc-update add elogind boot

For users of startx instead of one of the supported DMs, do not forget to 
update ~/.xinitrc accordingly (ck-launch-session is gone without replacement).

PS: Subsequently, this will lead to the last-riting of sys-power/pm-utils [6]
which is dead even longer than the original ConsoleKit(1) project. KDE Plasma 
users sticking with sys-auth/consolekit are then going to lose suspend from 
GUI without superuser rights.

[1] https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2
[2] https://github.com/elogind/elogind
[3] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=elogind-support
[4] https://blogs.gentoo.org/leio/2019/03/26/gnome-3-30/
[5] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Elogind
[6] https://bugs.gentoo.org/659616

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 10:19 PM Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Enter the elogind project [2], which is a standalone logind implementation
> based on systemd code, currently maintained by a fellow Gentoo user.

A few minor comments:

1.  While it is somewhat implicit in the headers, you might want to
mention in the text that this will not impact systemd profiles and
that those will just use logind.  It is a natural question people will
end up asking anyway.

2.  As evidenced in [1], many users probably have no idea what
consolekit, logind, or elogind actually do (or policykit/dbus and a
bunch of other modern desktop-oriented tooling that wasn't around back
when we were all editing X11 mode lines).  You might want to just toss
in a sentence or two to explain that as background, since people are
going to worry especially with the dreaded s-word in there.  Or find
some website that explains what it is reasonably well and link it with
a note in the text...

1 - https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/message/8dae2579be22c206d0f4bded84154f2d

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Brian Evans]

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On 10/27/2019 10:19 PM, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:
> Rebuild all affected consumers and remove sys-auth/consolekit:
> 
> # emerge --ask --changed-use --deep world
> # emerge --unmerge consolekit
> 

Can we please avoid using --unmerge when it is not necessary?  This
should be 'emerge --depclean consolekit' (or optionally use -c) instead
to ensure nothing is broken.  It is just a good practice to teach users
how to remove things properly.

Brian


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

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On 28.10.2019 13:36, Brian Evans wrote:
> On 10/27/2019 10:19 PM, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:
>> Rebuild all affected consumers and remove sys-auth/consolekit:
>>
>> # emerge --ask --changed-use --deep world

missing set operator in line above as well

>> # emerge --unmerge consolekit


-- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Andreas Sturmlechner]

On Monday, 28 October 2019 at 04:46, desultory wrote:
> On 10/27/19 22:19, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:
> > Display-If-Installed: sys-auth/consolekit
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/alpha/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4t/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv4t/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv5te/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv5te/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv6j/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv6j/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv7a/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/armv7a/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm/17.0/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm64/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/arm64/17.0/desktop/plasma
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/hppa/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/ia64/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/m68k/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc32/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc64/17.0/32bit-userland/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/powerpc/ppc64/17.0/64bit-userland/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sh/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sparc/17.0/64ul/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/sparc/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop
> > Display-If-Profile: default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop/plasma
> 
> Given the implications of the news item, perhaps dropping the
> Display-If-Profile tags would be warranted. It's not like there is an
> overabundance of news items on a typical running system, or that this
> would add to the initial wave of news items for a new install.

Anyone else who thinks this should not be restricted to just desktop profiles?

Regards,
Andreas

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Patrick McLean]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:10:37 +0100
Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> wrote:

> 
> Anyone else who thinks this should not be restricted to just desktop
> profiles?

I am not aware of any use cases for elogind/consolekit on servers, it's
really for machines where you have to distinguish between someone
connecting remotely and someone physically using a keyboard/mouse
connected to the machine.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[James Le Cuirot]

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On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 11:23:20 -0700
Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:10:37 +0100
> Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Anyone else who thinks this should not be restricted to just desktop
> > profiles?  
> 
> I am not aware of any use cases for elogind/consolekit on servers, it's
> really for machines where you have to distinguish between someone
> connecting remotely and someone physically using a keyboard/mouse
> connected to the machine.

I switched from consolekit to elogind on my normally headless ARM box.
It runs XMMS2 and outputs through PulseAudio. Under consolekit, my
user's /var/run directory would disappear after a while, taking the
pulse socket with it. Under elogind, I was able to set my user to
"linger", which fixed the issue. It's not a typical use case but yeah,
they do have uses outside of desktop.

-- 
James Le Cuirot (chewi)
Gentoo Linux Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[Patrick McLean]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 23:03:15 +0000
James Le Cuirot <chewi@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 11:23:20 -0700
> Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:10:37 +0100
> > Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >   
> > > 
> > > Anyone else who thinks this should not be restricted to just
> > > desktop profiles?    
> > 
> > I am not aware of any use cases for elogind/consolekit on servers,
> > it's really for machines where you have to distinguish between
> > someone connecting remotely and someone physically using a
> > keyboard/mouse connected to the machine.  
> 
> I switched from consolekit to elogind on my normally headless ARM box.
> It runs XMMS2 and outputs through PulseAudio. Under consolekit, my
> user's /var/run directory would disappear after a while, taking the
> pulse socket with it. Under elogind, I was able to set my user to
> "linger", which fixed the issue. It's not a typical use case but yeah,
> they do have uses outside of desktop.

Which sounds like perfect for a local setup, probably not something
that should be in a generic profile.

Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] News Item: Desktop profile switching USE default to elogind

[desultory]

On 10/29/19 19:08, Patrick McLean wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 23:03:15 +0000
> James Le Cuirot <chewi@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 11:23:20 -0700
>> Patrick McLean <chutzpah@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 16:10:37 +0100
>>> Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>   
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else who thinks this should not be restricted to just
>>>> desktop profiles?    
>>>
>>> I am not aware of any use cases for elogind/consolekit on servers,
>>> it's really for machines where you have to distinguish between
>>> someone connecting remotely and someone physically using a
>>> keyboard/mouse connected to the machine.  
>>
>> I switched from consolekit to elogind on my normally headless ARM box.
>> It runs XMMS2 and outputs through PulseAudio. Under consolekit, my
>> user's /var/run directory would disappear after a while, taking the
>> pulse socket with it. Under elogind, I was able to set my user to
>> "linger", which fixed the issue. It's not a typical use case but yeah,
>> they do have uses outside of desktop.
> 
> Which sounds like perfect for a local setup, probably not something
> that should be in a generic profile.
> 
> 
> 
The bulk of the proposed news item is apropos packages and the reason
that the profiles are changing, not actually profile specific
considerations; and running a desktop environment hardly requires
running a desktop profile. Given that the news is largely in regards to
specific packages it seems logical that it would more fully reach the
user base affected by the causal changes were it simply directed to
those with the package being deprecated installed (as indicated in the
proposed news item) without regard for what profile they are using.

Beyond that, I'm not aware of any advantages to limiting it to desktop
profiles despite the direct cause of the news item being a transition in
the profiles; while targeting it more generally does provide the benefit
of reminding users who are not using a desktop profile to at least
consider following suit prior to last rites on a package that they have
installed thereby providing a better user experience on the whole.