From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAAD6138334 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:06:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19329E0891; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4943E0885 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:06:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4dd7:97f2:0:474:869e:f632:b24d] (2001-4dd7-97f2-0-474-869e-f632-b24d.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de [IPv6:2001:4dd7:97f2:0:474:869e:f632:b24d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: whissi) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B12D434D795 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:06:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] unsanctioned python 2.7 crusade To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <51dddccd576fb1203457a09f305bac5a48eaae6c.camel@gentoo.org> <20f5820a902edd121bd49195c4adc2f5cea84fa8.camel@gentoo.org> From: Thomas Deutschmann Autocrypt: addr=whissi@gentoo.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFc4iggBEACg/drq2pkXyE0mO7cqfaH5UX9D2A8uaBWHcgVPZdf+bVlc7gT1b/TJgFBO yCecB1j9ReWWAE55nwraFL7+5XofRnwVzC3PglN/M/F02fudCeEkFfDtH65DZ67LV0QqXOZ7 e2aqD1NxJM1ydcehIoxgESiv8ctMCcb5Jui2A7vddxEBouQqJKDVqXqANEiBrtd0x4+noRC3 07BN80SgUiwuSJp8Y9+LSdKWGxiDxFAQygDlLWu1QIOg2PUjrM1ZtKCii8IcbnhsEPZj0jcQ f/omIHaksyfMdx6lHfSUZzzLQm41nhWlgYUxzW4D8Nh+ka51FIIWRWwNJTXQNpU8s32AT+rr K2hyNY0F+hnCRc0gUJtAACPZYNYNMlTCIb5yLKo5qoRKcHkAI3vAPEsPO8nmpYaxhI+9PwWJ 9BMaOZ0PjN5P5p0ierOd3yjuu0CIx+yirAvZMZYLx3HylFmuIke5GfcfzTuZhgRL1yoaftCH 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k7JR84ygJwdw+LqZxpRoatB09ClmIBTPQjLGkrKdzjMLC94de/1Il3hZbJV/XxMpNnfrN+tJ xVmr3FLU90gcl5BMWPYeLfrdLsCisOo++2ogoge2R/S9MIQJSPk4aH1QNAYCHDYKkgDSvla4 fkVrYKQnthHH8OyWggyKiHav3CaxfhPxV9DwZyEnOaOGOpie20JGhQfYbKLHxAACLeuffc5/ dBLWPjyBAy1u2I6A4KkQ2ZPmVgEWWHKGCaCUt1fecBL1N0DmosU5SMsyi6sUFBLVMGrkH265 kpN1yciRRETFPKlyuCflMOGzII21PwqM8SuJiavX4E9dnQ0dLViQodtR0kne4furD9Pq6YKY 6FJDwhivz2W7z50wKRrEIfAWwtrh6zMaSR8X5axrMUDOJYeteZ1fyn65tQ4WxYLCbtd1qN4w DaaptNnYve6gchJV/w== Organization: Gentoo Foundation, Inc Message-ID: <33a433c0-b547-7be6-f61a-1cf29b92328a@gentoo.org> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:06:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zisqqVi8doi2uJZU7p6vDu4odXnoBDVXF" X-Archives-Salt: b6ee5189-52a8-4894-b1e4-6e90c579052d X-Archives-Hash: 78d0a10f1805f1aceb3c00913d0b2174 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --zisqqVi8doi2uJZU7p6vDu4odXnoBDVXF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4WzYAWsU63Wt67v25B1k5NCzbhZRsKguC" --4WzYAWsU63Wt67v25B1k5NCzbhZRsKguC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On 2019-12-06 09:11, Mart Raudsepp wrote: > I don't think anyone can have a valid problem with package.mask of some= > of the things mentioned (sabnzbd, abcde, etc), because they were indeed= > maintainer-needed or sound@ (which David is part of, and is known > crickets territory) or whatnot. I agree with your mail in general but I don't understand this part: Since when is it acceptable for anyone to remove packages (the package.mask entry clearly says that this package is scheduled for removal and suspecting that any *user* will step and contact p-m for example is naive) without any need? Sure, if packages don't work anymore or are blocking something, we will start last-rite process. But for the sabnzbd example (I haven't looked closely on any other package from that list) there isn't anything blocking and it's a working piece of software. The only thing which stands out is: It's a Py2-only package. I am also curious about the maintainer-needed aspect: I understand that Python project doesn't *want* and is also *unable* to maintain all packages dumped to their project just because like everything in Gentoo, the project is understaffed for the amount of work. But what's the solution here? The message everyone saying this is acceptable sends out can be summarized as: In future, when you see a package which you are just using will lose its maintainer, take it before anyone decides 'I have not *any* reason and there is no need but I'll remove it just because I can'. Face it, no single maintainer can keep up with maintaining 30+ packages in good quality. So there's a high chance that package will rot the same way like they are already rotting in former herds (projects). Therefore I appreciate packages *without* set maintainer. Because these packages are sending an important signal: Because they are maintainer-needed, it's OK for anyone to touch them. Assuming we still have the rule "If you touch it and it will break, you have to fix it" that's at least something which *can* work because we still have no system to declare "Yes, I am the maintainer of this package but I am fine with you touching it". --=20 Regards, Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5 --4WzYAWsU63Wt67v25B1k5NCzbhZRsKguC-- --zisqqVi8doi2uJZU7p6vDu4odXnoBDVXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAEBCgB9FiEEExKRzo+LDXJgXHuURObr3Jv2BVkFAl3qUkJfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDEz MTI5MUNFOEY4QjBENzI2MDVDN0I5NDQ0RTZFQkRDOUJGNjA1NTkACgkQRObr3Jv2 BVmBKgf/SlhvQGW+2qTEgqt0D2BRnZNhvmhaI3wbRR7+p/u/8Qp9uQM1KxrM2Dli V/5bgC9jRLQHY3OtTopPV3VwY22PlVZCgywqhajxTxNxd65Cluq3m8q6eubCm5hI rSbniWBDeGb0C9KGwNqe7U0iZidddpXqy7JlmT5pNJcGKodTgojcSuFoTwBHAIaQ TokANAwsCyRfizNYdrpAVyic7PDdFnNnfv8lwzDOlrIBk6RuSvLOI1rs8ul/8721 vSTEJXXrb1Q/UkO+SEQv+ZK6m5Hiox3CwYj2C7m6f8O1rBoDq6xwzLa3hUJA0+gA bzT5oWpsK1b3FIwRYM3bK8x4HJWUWw== =8S2U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zisqqVi8doi2uJZU7p6vDu4odXnoBDVXF--