From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98D36139083 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:59:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C3DCE21C0E4; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:58:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E23621C080 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:58:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.100.0.22] (host-37-191-236-118.lynet.no [37.191.236.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: k_f) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8809D33E4AD; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:58:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] OT Getting to know others in Gentoo was -> No Java Team, Java neglect was -> Reverse use of Python/Ruby versions References: <1491847844.1661.10.camel@gentoo.org> <7756897.IrvZLuE8XP@note> To: "William L. Thomson Jr." From: Kristian Fiskerstrand Cc: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <2e3c368d-8d74-de08-f353-00952e92f35e@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 17:57:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3cQwGvjmqFWr0Kg676QWMBnfI0WL1p4nf" X-Archives-Salt: 239986a0-3f48-4ef1-ac64-df0fea5d49a1 X-Archives-Hash: 3194ef838f6924d87e17f160edcfadc4 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --3cQwGvjmqFWr0Kg676QWMBnfI0WL1p4nf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="XSIHGNIXFjdqL6sFeUv7No7xCQVVrtuEG"; protected-headers="v1" From: Kristian Fiskerstrand Reply-To: k_f@gentoo.org To: "William L. Thomson Jr." Cc: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <2e3c368d-8d74-de08-f353-00952e92f35e@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] OT Getting to know others in Gentoo was -> No Java Team, Java neglect was -> Reverse use of Python/Ruby versions References: <1491847844.1661.10.camel@gentoo.org> <7756897.IrvZLuE8XP@note> In-Reply-To: --XSIHGNIXFjdqL6sFeUv7No7xCQVVrtuEG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 04/11/2017 05:22 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > When people make assumptions about others based on posts to a mailing > list etc. It seems they may have a limited view of the world and lack > of world experience. The more you travel, learn other cultures, etc. > You learn not to assume about others. Cultures alone can be very > different. You also learn respect is a VERY big thing. In the US in my > area and others. Lack of showing respect can result in violence. In > business lack of respect can really be costly just the same. In Asian > cultures, respect is HUGE. [finding a place in block of text to break in with a relative context] Doesn't this argument go both ways? We have participants from a number of cultures on the mailing list, and what you feel insulted for I wouldn't even shrug about here in Norway. In certain other European countries (or northern Norway), you'd be considered prude for not having some expletives involved in the everyday discussion. And doesn't the extension of that argument mean that we should all try to consider the feedback from others in how we present ourselves? Given that most of our discussions within this project happens via email, and on IRC, but email would be the more dominant channel in terms of substantive discussions, shouldn't we make an effort to increase the signal to noise ratio and give it serious thought when multiple people state that a specific behavior is unwanted? I believe most of us want a more fruitful community within Gentoo, but I do not believe the way to go ahead to get it is running around complaining, adding to the negativity. If you really want change, try to contribute code through the established channels, try to contribute documentation patches, contributing with resourced bug reports, and say thank you to developers once in a while instead of expecting some sense of entitlement because others are contributing pro bono[i]. All I can say is, spending the amount of time reading the dominant mailing lists is time I could've spent on other aspects of Gentoo, and I'd much prefer the participants respecting the use of my time when posting to one of the lists that'd be expected I read to begin with. So if you know, and receive indication of, a misrepresentation of persona in such information channels -- might I suggest considering contributing through different channels and/or limiting the communication to objective contributions (such as patches)? Notes: [i] granted I should quantify that with saying that pro bono argument only goes so far, if picking up a responsibility it should be followed up or dropped, the voluntary basis is whether to pick up the ball or not --=20 Kristian Fiskerstrand OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3 --XSIHGNIXFjdqL6sFeUv7No7xCQVVrtuEG-- --3cQwGvjmqFWr0Kg676QWMBnfI0WL1p4nf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEtOrRIMf4mkrqRycHJQt6/tY3nYUFAljs/NgACgkQJQt6/tY3 nYX0Ggf+M5xESdbhCMr3K+zFERyI7X4zLbIfJqGnySdU9Lz+BnE4kmscK2g/8FFW IaaKW7zBWJf2NiwpvaNMZJG6TroMgADm4qqKluiMcet84mJ4weqmt95+uQOvTRRg TCMw/yX9iP5LQV/pERfc6t9uQL1mLrui4F4k4FzuUecrl7eXqWUVgraEdGC5pDXw cAuUyNIajk7VEho2m38LzpLA5U7NgXIU0txLFA9Zvch2qEDoP8s+vRqZgxyzYvH5 7Z7SH1e7isFa++24S3li024Aix/uffG8qdbWViwWEKYNERretS4NcMy/HjrSOzZN VW7Bd0FG6bGbEb7/gMnidchPME5MHQ== =uxFC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3cQwGvjmqFWr0Kg676QWMBnfI0WL1p4nf--