From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18C5F138334 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 09:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 310CAE08E0; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 09:18:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from othala.iewc.co.za (othala.iewc.co.za [IPv6:2c0f:f720:0:3:21e:67ff:fe14:6ae5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B88F8E08D6 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 09:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [165.16.203.53] (helo=[192.168.42.106]) by othala.iewc.co.za with esmtp (Exim 4.92.2) (envelope-from ) id 1iKfS3-0005kM-Lm; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 11:18:40 +0200 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org, David Seifert References: <20191012110023.165840-1-soap@gentoo.org> <1bbad081be57654e20e590734ed8aa88dc6f6176.camel@gentoo.org> <20191012160228.GA2481@linux1.home> <25763900.3IMS5cSOPn@ernie> <86031cc11741c13b354ad85577a1e32c4ca97460.camel@gentoo.org> <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> From: Jaco Kroon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jaco@uls.co.za; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFXtplYBCADM6RTLCOSPiclevkn/gdf8h9l+kKA6N+WGIIFuUtoc9Gaf8QhXWW/fvUq2 a3eo4ULVFT1jJ56Vfm4MssGA97NZtlOe3cg8QJMZZhsoN5wetG9SrJvT9Rlltwo5nFmXY3ZY gXsdwkpDr9Y5TqBizx7DGxMd/mrOfXeql57FWFeOc2GuJBnHPZQMJsQ66l2obPn36hWEtHYN gcUSPH3OOusSEGZg/oX/8WSDQ/b8xz1JKTEgcnu/JR0FxzjY19zSHmbnyVU+/gF3oeJFcEUk HvZu776LRVdcZ0lb1bHQB2K9rTZBVeZLitgAefPVH2uERVSO8EZO1I5M7afV0Kd/Vyn9ABEB AAG0G0phY28gS3Jvb24gPGphY29AdWxzLmNvLnphPokBNwQTAQgAIQUCVe2mVgIbAwULCQgH AgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRAILcSxr/fungCPB/sHrfufpRbrVTtHUjpbY4bTQLQE bVrh4/yMiKprALRYy0nsMivl16Q/3rNWXJuQ0gR/faC3yNlDgtEoXx8noXOhva9GGHPGTaPT hhpcp/1E4C9Ghcaxw3MRapVnSKnSYL+zOOpkGwye2+fbqwCkCYCM7Vu6ws3+pMzJNFK/UOgW Tj8O5eBa3DiU4U26/jUHEIg74U+ypYPcj5qXG0xNXmmoDpZweW41Cfo6FMmgjQBTEGzo9e5R kjc7MH3+IyJvP4bzE5Paq0q0b5zZ8DUJFtT7pVb3FQTz1v3CutLlF1elFZzd9sZrg+mLA5PM o8PG9FLw9ZtTE314vgMWJ+TTYX0kuQENBFXtplYBCADedX9HSSJozh4YIBT+PuLWCTJRLTLu jXU7HobdK1EljPAi1ahCUXJR+NHvpJLSq/N5rtL12ejJJ4EMMp2UUK0IHz4kx26FeAJuOQMe GEzoEkiiR15ufkApBCRssIj5B8OA/351Y9PFore5KJzQf1psrCnMSZoJ89KLfU7C5S+ooX9e re2aWgu5jqKgKDLa07/UVHyxDTtQKRZSFibFCHbMELYKDr3tUdUfCDqVjipCzHmLZ+xMisfn yX9aTVI3FUIs8UiqM5xlxqfuCnDrKBJjQs3uvmd6cyhPRmnsjase48RoO84Ckjbp/HVu0+1+ 6vgiPjbe4xk7Ehkw1mfSxb79ABEBAAGJAR8EGAEIAAkFAlXtplYCGwwACgkQCC3Esa/37p7u XwgAjpFzUj+GMmo8ZeYwHH6YfNZQV+hfesr7tqlZn5DhQXJgT2NF6qh5Vn8TcFPR4JZiVIkF o0je7c8FJe34Aqex/H9R8LxvhENX/YOtq5+PqZj59y9G9+0FFZ1CyguTDC845zuJnnR5A0lw FARZaL8T7e6UGphtiT0NdR7EXnJ/alvtsnsNudtvFnKtigYvtw2wthW6CLvwrFjsuiXPjVUX 825zQUnBHnrED6vG67UG4z5cQ4uY/LcSNsqBsoj6/wsT0pnqdibhCWmgFimOsSRgaF7qsVtg TWyQDTjH643+qYbJJdH91LASRLrenRCgpCXgzNWAMX6PJlqLrNX1Ye4CQw== Organization: Ultimate Linux Solutions (Pty) Ltd Message-ID: <2b4de5d1-e5f3-1c9d-792f-0e64002d04e3@uls.co.za> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 11:18:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Spam-report: Relay access (othala.iewc.co.za). X-Archives-Salt: e3f8f535-451e-44c8-b197-c679c585a082 X-Archives-Hash: c5880effafe666544057fb8c57184892 Hi, On 2019/10/15 19:34, David Seifert wrote: > On Tue, 2019-10-15 at 12:04 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:02 PM Mike Gilbert >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:00 AM David Seifert >>> wrote: >>>> On Sun, 2019-10-13 at 12:33 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 1:52 PM David Seifert >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 19:01 +0200, Dennis Schridde wrote: >>>>>>> On Samstag, 12. Oktober 2019 18:02:28 CEST William Hubbs >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 01:11:49PM +0200, Michał Górny >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 13:00 +0200, David Seifert wrote: >>>>>>>>>> * Some distros have not just merged / and /usr, they >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have also merged /usr/bin and /usr/sbin. By giving >>>>>>>>>> users the choice of merging */bin and */sbin, >>>>>>>>>> Gentoo follows suit. >>>>>>>>> What about the scenario when /bin has been merged with >>>>>>>>> /usr/sbin >>>>>>>>> and /sbin with /usr/bin? ;-P >>>>>>>> I also don't see the need for something like this. The >>>>>>>> idea of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> /usr >>>>>>>> merge is to have all binaries available in one place, and >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>> is not a good justification for separating bin from sbin. >>>>>>> Do I read this correctly? USE=-split-usr currently means >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> /bin, >>>>>>> /sbin, / >>>>>>> usr/bin and /usr/sbin point to the same directory? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If that is not the case, then I agree that users should >>>>>>> have the >>>>>>> possibility >>>>>>> to set it up like this and USE=-split-sbin should be >>>>>>> supported. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Dennis >>>>>> I agree, I wasn't aware that USE=-split-usr implies the >>>>>> complete 2- >>>>>> level (/usr and *sbin) merge. In that case, all of this is >>>>>> obsolete. >>>>> That was NOT my intention when I introduced the split-usr USE >>>>> flag. >>>>> >>>>> For bin/sbin, I would prefer to drop any conflicting links >>>>> unconditionally. Do you have examples of scenarios where this >>>>> is not >>>>> possible? >>>>> >>>> William has confirmed on IRC that USE=-split-usr performs the >>>> complete >>>> Fedora-esque /usr merge (which makes sense IMO). >>> William's opinion is not the only one that matters. >> Sorry, I guess you are referring to the behavior baselayout? That >> doesn't necessarily align with the global usage. >> > https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/baselayout.git/tree/Makefile#n93 > > Clearly the usr-merge in baselayout intends to merge all these 4 > directories. There is currently no option to merge /usr and / but keep > /bin and /sbin separate, so the most parsimonious solution here is to > assume that usr-merge semantics in Gentoo is about merging all 4 > directories. > > For what it's worth.  All of my systems are installed with a fixed-size 512MB / with everything else (including /usr) on separate LVs. Whilst sbin vs bin is just a matter of what's available, to me it makes sense to keep these split.  To me it's always been logical to keep administrative type (root) tools under sbin, and stuff that's generally useful for users under bin. Keeping / and /usr split (or the ability to keep it split) is rather crucial for me.  It's for historic installations a matter of space constraints on /.  For new installations it's a matter of keeping / as small as possible in order to have a smallish bootable system which can be used for recovering the rest of the system, ideally without an initrd (which also works to an extent). Kind Regards, Jaco