From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945C913800E for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:08:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 57A3CE06F7; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:07:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gh0-f181.google.com (mail-gh0-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C28CE055C for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:06:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz13 with SMTP id z13so3177298ghb.40 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:06:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j3ozlNjWUHAqqs/e8bKy0aWlBAoCAkWN2A5K4FnioAM=; b=dWYV6UsRsvfN50X3g+nmfHWyN8huA9nxriucxRBaiRPMpiUObskbSV46w8/VrZOvEB NOPeqrjibP1/kmY7W49cCZDrFJKWgno41IRE+dgaSUtVSa5/z5zCGtCJ1X35ueMbav2w CP6pTjWC/DrLR/faRE/pGrCP9dvVE4wo267YfGmPc3Pp8izKeEy2h0YiEY+4AjATB9En yGBVxi17hP1qYKNDws9x0A/RRgKEJ2c8CbIDgG+n3KDN1UzSI3hkbCCHfvYcJB1dtn2q qx49eKpTZQwCRIB3IwCFc6R5aJweojfZFS5EINXIqr/KP0HqMtakT6K14QX2CglsOmsf SfMw== Received: by 10.50.213.1 with SMTP id no1mr1034139igc.71.1343376418472; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ormaajbox (184-97-250-123.mpls.qwest.net. [184.97.250.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z3sm5530821igc.7.2012.07.27.01.06.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:06:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Douglas To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] UTF-8 locale by default Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 03:06:43 -0500 Message-ID: <2734677.97hjmIHWxX@smorgbox> User-Agent: KMail/4.8.3 (Linux/3.4.6-pf+; KDE/4.8.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <20498.15988.225230.614853@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <3146937.NEprMvEFLe@mephista> <20498.15988.225230.614853@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3735839.Nrhi9UT1BH"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Archives-Salt: f873c2f7-5cc3-49a6-8f54-ee79ffcf3ef4 X-Archives-Hash: e655faa91d38a75ee9eb82cf91a829b2 --nextPart3735839.Nrhi9UT1BH Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Friday, July 27, 2012 09:08:36 AM Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >>>>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, Ben de Groot wrote: > > > I understand why the council rejected Debian's C.UTF-8 option, > > but is there really no better default that we can use? > > > Without any default locale set, in practically all cases that means > > that the user is presented with English, and mostly the American > > variant. So, in practice, we are defaulting to en_US, just not in a > > unicode environment. Correct me if I'm wrong. > > See below. We're not defaulting to en_US for things like the number > format. > > > Also, in most other places (such as our website, GLEPs, ebuilds) > > we default to en_US.UTF-8. > > > So let's upgrade to en_US.UTF-8, which is for most users more > > desirable than the current situation. Of course we will still advise > > them to set their desired locales in /etc/locale.gen. But at least > > they will start with a unicode environment, as expected anno 2012. > > As I had pointed out before [1], changing from POSIX to an en_US > locale will have undesirable side effects, like commas as thousands > separators in numbers (because of LC_NUMERIC). Also the defaults of > en_US for LC_MEASUREMENT and LC_PAPER are only useful in the U.S. > > So if we change the default (but I still don't see the need), we > should go for a less intrusive setting like: > > LANG="POSIX" > LC_CTYPE="en_US.utf8" > > Ulrich > You're concerned about the commas breaking things? Given that you usually need to specifically ask for them (i.e., printf ' flag), and that kind of output is usually going to be for human consumption only that seems unlikely. If anything does rely upon the format, can't tolerate different locales, and fails to specify LC_NUMERIC then it's broken anyway. LC_MONETARY / LC_MEASUREMENT as en_US are probably slightly more annoying defaults for some people. What do users of other distros think? Is this really a serious problem for anyone? LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 would be a bare minimum. The important bit is getting utf8 by default. I can live with LANG=POSIX. -- Dan Douglas --nextPart3735839.Nrhi9UT1BH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAlASTBcACgkQMmyDamdg+MzRvgCfaMjxshcFvxsnX6z925zS7S0j J94AmgNxnN94E500g64IzLxECmiTOsY7 =fIWf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3735839.Nrhi9UT1BH--