[gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[David Seifert]

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# David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> (2024-01-18)
# Unmaintained set of packages. Overall, TensorFlow is ill-suited for
# distro packaging, since it's entangled with tons of googleware and
# continually breaks on minor dependency updates coupled with a
# byzantine build system. These 5 packages together have a total of
# 54 bugs reported against them, with zero activity from the maintainer.
#
# Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
# these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to date
# and Google's general unwillingness to take community input quickly
# leads to maintainer burnout.
# Use sci-libs/pytorch as a modern alternative with better packaging.
# Removal on 2024-02-17. Bug #922374
dev-build/bazel
sci-libs/keras
sci-libs/tensorflow
sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator
sci-visualization/tensorboard


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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[Maciej Barć]

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A lot of Bazel bugs were just left to rot, even though they are invalid.
There are work from users to get Bazel to a reasonable state, see:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/918703 (plus comment #1)

> # Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
> # these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to date

I would urge to reconsider leaving Bazel out of this; I do not think 
that one is lost for now. Since I sometimes use Bazel myself, I will 
work on adding a bazel-bin + virtual.

I will NOT however use/support Bazel for Gentoo packages nor eclasses.

On 18.01.2024 13:53, David Seifert wrote:
> # David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> (2024-01-18)
> # Unmaintained set of packages. Overall, TensorFlow is ill-suited for
> # distro packaging, since it's entangled with tons of googleware and
> # continually breaks on minor dependency updates coupled with a
> # byzantine build system. These 5 packages together have a total of
> # 54 bugs reported against them, with zero activity from the maintainer.
> #
> # Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
> # these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to date
> # and Google's general unwillingness to take community input quickly
> # leads to maintainer burnout.
> # Use sci-libs/pytorch as a modern alternative with better packaging.
> # Removal on 2024-02-17. Bug #922374
> dev-build/bazel
> sci-libs/keras
> sci-libs/tensorflow
> sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator
> sci-visualization/tensorboard
> 

-- 
Have a great day!

~ Maciej XGQT Barć

xgqt@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer
(dotnet, emacs, math, ml, nim, scheme, sci)
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Xgqt
9B0A 4C5D 02A3 B43C 9D6F D6B1 14D7 4A1F 43A6 AC3C

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[David Seifert]

On Thu, 2024-01-18 at 14:33 +0100, Maciej Barć wrote:
> A lot of Bazel bugs were just left to rot, even though they are
> invalid.
> There are work from users to get Bazel to a reasonable state, see:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/918703 (plus comment #1)
> 
> > # Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
> > # these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to
> > date
> 
> I would urge to reconsider leaving Bazel out of this; I do not think 
> that one is lost for now. Since I sometimes use Bazel myself, I will 
> work on adding a bazel-bin + virtual.
> 

Then fix the bugs that are open right now (and keep it masked), since I
don't believe Bazel is much better than the rest. Once the overwhelming
majority of bugs are fixed, we can see again.

That said, given how brittle all of this stuff is and how little Google
cares about FOSS users, I don't believe this to be sustainable path
forward.

> I will NOT however use/support Bazel for Gentoo packages nor eclasses.
> 
> On 18.01.2024 13:53, David Seifert wrote:
> > # David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> (2024-01-18)
> > # Unmaintained set of packages. Overall, TensorFlow is ill-suited
> > for
> > # distro packaging, since it's entangled with tons of googleware and
> > # continually breaks on minor dependency updates coupled with a
> > # byzantine build system. These 5 packages together have a total of
> > # 54 bugs reported against them, with zero activity from the
> > maintainer.
> > #
> > # Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
> > # these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to
> > date
> > # and Google's general unwillingness to take community input quickly
> > # leads to maintainer burnout.
> > # Use sci-libs/pytorch as a modern alternative with better
> > packaging.
> > # Removal on 2024-02-17. Bug #922374
> > dev-build/bazel
> > sci-libs/keras
> > sci-libs/tensorflow
> > sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator
> > sci-visualization/tensorboard
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Have a great day!
> 
> ~ Maciej XGQT Barć
> 
> xgqt@gentoo.org
> Gentoo Linux developer
> (dotnet, emacs, math, ml, nim, scheme, sci)
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Xgqt
> 9B0A 4C5D 02A3 B43C 9D6F D6B1 14D7 4A1F 43A6 AC3C

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[Ionen Wolkens]

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On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 02:33:08PM +0100, Maciej Barć wrote:
> A lot of Bazel bugs were just left to rot, even though they are invalid.
> There are work from users to get Bazel to a reasonable state, see:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/918703 (plus comment #1)
> 
> > # Unmasking this requires a sign-off from QA and treecleaners, since
> > # these packages require a ton of mental bandwidth to keep up to date
> 
> I would urge to reconsider leaving Bazel out of this; I do not think 
> that one is lost for now. Since I sometimes use Bazel myself, I will 
> work on adding a bazel-bin + virtual.
> 
> I will NOT however use/support Bazel for Gentoo packages nor eclasses.

Note that the current bazel ebuild uses the eclass. So if that's not
supported by anyone... Albeit seems(?) to only be for bazel_get_flags
so it should be easy to make it go standalone.

Also a virtual for -bin won't matter much if it's not intended for
use with Gentoo packaging. Users don't overly need to go through a
virtual and can just emerge bazel{,-bin} as wanted.

For all I care it could be reduced to a bin-only package if that's
easier and sufficient, not that I use bazel myself for anything to
have much of an opinion here.

That aside, bazel does sound far less bad than keeping tensorflow.
-- 
ionen

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-build/bazel, sci-libs/keras, sci-libs/tensorflow, sci-libs/tensorflow-estimator, sci-visualization/tensorboard

[Alfredo Tupone]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:53:20 +0100
David Seifert <soap@gentoo.org> wrote:

> # Use sci-libs/pytorch as a modern alternative with better packaging.

Thanks for saying that :)

It is a big effort. Hope someone join me on maintaing it and all deps

Alfredo