From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2040158089 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:06:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 112012BC08C; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:06:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx0.riseup.net (mx0.riseup.net [198.252.153.6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7F272BC013 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fews01-sea.riseup.net (fews01-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.109]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx0.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RlY2d6NkBz9t0W for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:06:01 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1694545561; bh=5M/+aV66eAx6MxfCmbQoxLmBLhxrPOiMCQ5vZRqLtKs=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Xu4wwEJUeh4wxdpCrchjVHAmUUl6afZV+IOfDspQXNOfFbDZpKAjsqC16UCMtfjX4 9hrG0SQolMdUOTi6Cq8d8ZkZTzX+1Xb/01yKXkfWK77w44XGWXTiVV50cOB0AQuX+Y J1TAMaXy2th2/TFutO0cbdVf7qZyiHqtFMGS5L0s= X-Riseup-User-ID: 3192D45B8169D6632DE1DF3553DC255EA92F3E8705C43A8BD322F90097F0ACA7 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews01-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RlY2Q4NG8zJp1q for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 19:05:50 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 12:05:40 -0700 From: orbea To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev Message-ID: <20230912120540.5d30dc7a@Akita> In-Reply-To: References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <20230911082243.65aa85f5@Akita> <4128737.ElGaqSPkdT@kona> <20230911084231.73dd619f@Akita> <5848191c-8708-edfe-0c69-eeced3907b0d@gmail.com> <87zg1szc23.fsf@gentoo.org> <5d96d41de2f7057b42b436783678c8c4.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <87zg1sxu88.fsf@gentoo.org> <6aca04641c105c3fc72910fdbb7b6c01.squirrel@ukinbox.ecrypt.net> <877cowxs1c.fsf@gentoo.org> <87ledbwk5g.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230912083517.65561251@Akita> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: b8984490-1f5c-4dd7-9cbd-9b364eb7aca7 X-Archives-Hash: 065b3f2fcd59edb3752affd1708660f9 On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:51:34 -0400 Matt Turner wrote: > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 11:35=E2=80=AFAM orbea wrote: > > > > On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:17:00 +0100 > > Sam James wrote: > > =20 > > > Rich Freeman writes: > > > =20 > > > > On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 9:36=E2=80=AFAM Eddie Chapman > > > > wrote: =20 > > > >> in Gentoo. Have any of these 4 maintainers publicly said > > > >> (anywhere) that they are not interested in being maintainers > > > >> anymore (which is fine if that is the case)? We're not talking > > > >> here about a lone maintainer of some peripheral package that's > > > >> disappeared leaving an orphaned package. =20 > > > > > > > > It isn't like somebody is censoring the lists or waging commit > > > > wars on the metadata.xml/mask file. If somebody was eager to > > > > maintain it I'm sure they'd have spoken up. > > > > =20 > > > >> I'm an outsider to Gentoo development (just a heavy user for > > > >> over a decade both personally and professionally) so I might > > > >> have missed something. I just find it puzzling. =20 > > > > > > > > I'm not puzzled by what is going on, or by your email, because > > > > it happens basically anytime a high-profile package is > > > > treecleaned. Yes, Gentoo is about choice, but somebody has to > > > > actually do work to make the choices viable. There are always > > > > more people interested in using software than maintaining it. > > > > The frustration is completely understandable, but also kinda > > > > unavoidable. > > > > > > > > Repo QA standards don't mean that it has to barely work for your > > > > specific use case. The package has to deal with compatibility > > > > issues with stuff you don't use as well, which is why > > > > maintaining a system package can be hard work. It is usually > > > > less of an issue for more ordinary applications, which tend to > > > > have fewer interactions. If it is "good enough" for you as it > > > > is, then just move it to a private overlay and keep using it. > > > > You probably would need to override a virtual or two as well. > > > > Or publish your work somewhere others can use it. =20 > > > > > > Yes. We value having a coherent system with decent UX and we have > > > to choose what we can support. Users are free to override those > > > choices in local repositories - and if they want advice on the > > > best way to do so, they're free to ask. > > > =20 > > > > As evidenced by the ::libressl overlay where I am repeatedly > > copy/pasting changes from ::gentoo that have nothing to do with > > libressl this is not a very good solution. This is a huge amount of > > redundant and pointless effort that would be better suited being > > directly in the ::gentoo repo. =20 >=20 > I think most people aren't going to be swayed by "it's really > inefficient for me to do $xyz outside of ::gentoo" where xyz is > something that they find useless. It doesn't matter if it sways you or not, the reality is that your argument amounts to forcing people to do a lot of extra redundant work solving problems that have already been solved out of spite. >=20 > > What would be required so this is not required for eudev too? At the > > risk of repeating myself its working on my systems and I am willing > > to look at bugs and put in effort into keeping it functional. > > > > I don't think this is a matter of not having people willing to put > > effort in, but that no one wants to let them have the chance. =20 >=20 > Conspiracy alert! >=20 > It's been more than 2 years since > https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-08-24-eudev-retirement.html >=20 > People have had plenty of time. More chances than were fair have been > given. Nothing has changed, except eudev has further diverged from > upstream udev. >=20 Unfortunately this flew under the radar for a lot of people, when I asked Sam about this on irc a while ago I was informed (As I understood) that eudev was still going to be an option into the future and as the ebuild was still getting updates I never considered this is how the core Gentoo devs felt.