From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4C4C158089 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:34:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EF8F2BC03C; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:34:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56B892BC036 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:34:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fews02-sea.riseup.net (fews02-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.112]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Rl72W1StXzDqXG for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:34:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1694486067; bh=K9ajVExPNMi9ADLxOEKGxxm0sssT4zAOgZGwZHbFIDQ=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Cu1BubANZMLJAszCUslkB9/TmV9SqptrNjo9YS1v7MarAfzVLj6WVhaUDtXK2yPmx P3uDpXe8Lbw1OvKy/LQMBA4e/wuXg6WpzNfq79k6LuEZC8AbBeSvR5x+sT6xms/7ae MzABKee6wOIJfzCDmEg7PVTQHfj2Tj4ln+MlLOPY= X-Riseup-User-ID: BC38E276B110866D57EE5DC3D8BA9351928B518B596B343A3874B9D1A7EEB82E Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews02-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Rl72V6mjVzFpcn for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 02:34:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 19:34:24 -0700 From: orbea To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: sys-fs/eudev Message-ID: <20230911193424.4f6ef6ad@Akita> In-Reply-To: <87edj4xsjr.fsf@gentoo.org> References: <7802203.lOV4Wx5bFT@kona> <20230911082243.65aa85f5@Akita> <4128737.ElGaqSPkdT@kona> <20230911084231.73dd619f@Akita> <5848191c-8708-edfe-0c69-eeced3907b0d@gmail.com> <87zg1szc23.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230911141451.7c88dd7a@Akita> <87edj4z9q6.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230911143249.704f5d3a@Akita> <87sf7kxtue.fsf@gentoo.org> <20230911151008.77c829ea@Akita> <87edj4xsjr.fsf@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 84e368e0-7e32-4bb1-a399-21381a90de6e X-Archives-Hash: 2d478bd2aa53ae32207cdf660ee8c7d4 On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 23:17:09 +0100 Sam James wrote: > orbea writes: >=20 > > On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 22:50:13 +0100 > > Sam James wrote: > > =20 > >> orbea writes: > >> =20 > >> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 22:21:21 +0100 > >> > Sam James wrote: > >> > =20 > >> >> orbea writes: > >> >> =20 > >> >> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 21:31:30 +0100 > >> >> > Sam James wrote: > >> >> > =20 > >> >> >> Dale writes: > >> >> >> =20 > >> >> >> > orbea wrote: =20 > >> >> >> >> On Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:29:47 +0200 > >> >> >> >> "Andreas K. Huettel" wrote: > >> >> >> >> =20 > >> >> >> >>> Am Montag, 11. September 2023, 17:22:43 CEST schrieb > >> >> >> >>> orbea:=20 > >> >> >> >>>> Upstream is maintained still. > >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>>> https://github.com/eudev-project/eudev > >> >> >> >>>> =20 > >> >> >> >>> No, it's not. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> =20 > >> >> >> >> Based on what? It has several commits this year and is > >> >> >> >> currently working on both of my systems. Is there > >> >> >> >> something specific showing why its not maintained? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> . > >> >> >> >> =20 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On the link above it says this: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On 2021-08-20 Gentoo decided to abandon eudev and a new > >> >> >> > project was established on 2021-09-14 by Alpine, Devuan and > >> >> >> > Gentoo contributors (alphabetical order). > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > It seems to have a upstream that is active but no one is > >> >> >> > maintaining it on Gentoo.=C2=A0 Basically, it needs a Gentoo > >> >> >> > maintainer now.=C2=A0 It would seem given the time span that no > >> >> >> > one wants to take it.=C2=A0 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Like others, I use it but didn't know it wasn't maintained > >> >> >> > anymore. I hope someone will step up but if not, looks > >> >> >> > like we have to use udev.=C2=A0 =20 > >> >> >>=20 > >> >> >> No, see the linked bugs. Someone has to actually make it > >> >> >> compatible with the tags API which software is starting to > >> >> >> use.=20 > >> >> > > >> >> > I think its only a matter of time. > >> >> > > >> >> > https://github.com/eudev-project/eudev/pull/253 > >> >> > > >> >> > I'll apply the patch and test the builds if it helps, but I > >> >> > don't know about testing the runtime functionality of > >> >> > libgudev. =20 > >> >>=20 > >> >> Someone has to then bother reviewing it, merging it, releasing > >> >> it, and ideally updating eudev for other stuff like this. > >> >>=20 > >> >> Also note that the PR is a hack rather than a full > >> >> implementation of the functionality anyway, which may lead to > >> >> runtime misbehaviour. =20 > >> > > >> > According to upstream it implement's systemd's fallback path as > >> > explained in this comment. > >> > > >> > https://github.com/eudev-project/eudev/issues/249#issuecomment-16755= 20914 > >> > =20 > >>=20 > >> That same comment goes on to say it's the "quick-n-dirty" fix and > >> may break applications. =20 > > > > Slibtool also has no-op compatibility fixes that potentially could > > cause issues too, I don't see this being a problem there. If eudev > > was entirely broken or not being used I could understand why to > > remove it, but rather this is removing software that mostly works > > and is being used. With all due honesty is very disappointing to > > see this, I started to use Gentoo because it offered choices. =20 >=20 > "mostly works" is generally not a great thing we want to > endorse. >=20 > slibtool is also a complete rewrite of libtool rather than a fork > which is out of date and missing features that consumers start > to expect from development. We also, importantly, don't drag in > slibtool on user systems unless they explicitly request it > and it doesn't wrongly satisfy dependencies on libtool itself. You are not installing eudev on systems unless the user requests it as well and both slibtool and eudev are drop in replacements for their respective counterpart where not all functionality is supported. They both mostly work, by this logic we better remove slibtool too... >=20 > Someone being disappointed doesn't get work done. If there are bugs on my systems I am willing to figure them out and try to fix them, but its currently working just fine there and I won't be able to fix any future issues if Gentoo removes it first. Regardless the disappointment is a valid concern when Gentoo is willing to pull the rug up from under users feet under erroneous claims of the project being dead. >=20 > > =20 > >> =20 > >> > > >> > However its fully possible to use Gentoo without requiring > >> > sticky-tags so I don't really see the urgency that requires > >> > removing software that has users that find it works for them. We > >> > even have the most recent upstream release which came out only a > >> > few months ago. =20 > >> >> =20 > >> >> > =20 > >> >> >> =20 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dale > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > :-)=C2=A0 :-)=C2=A0 =20 > >> >> >>=20 > >> >> >> =20 > >> >>=20 > >> >> =20 > >>=20 > >> =20 >=20 >=20