[gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[William Hubbs]

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Title: OpenRC-0.18 changes to localmount and netmount
Author: William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted: 2015-10-01
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0
Display-If-Installed: <=sys-fs/openrc-0.18

The behaviour of localmount and netmount is changing. In the past, these
services always started successfully. However, now they will fail if a
file system they attempt to mount cannot be mounted.

If you have file systems listed in fstab which should not be mounted at
boot time, make sure to add noauto to the mount options. If you have
file systems that you want to attempt to mount at boot time but failure
should be allowed, add nofail to the mount options for these file
systems in fstab.

Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount -a.
This is being dropped because it is util-linux specific and not compatible
with busybox.


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[gentoo-dev] Re: news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Duncan]

William Hubbs posted on Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:58:19 -0500 as excerpted:

> Title: OpenRC-0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

$ echo "OpenRC-0.18 changes to localmount and netmount" | wc -c
47

I know there was some discussion about lifting the glep-42 title limit of 
44 chars, but AFAIK discussion is where it remained.

What about omitting the three chars "to " (including the space) and 
reordering, like so:

OpenRC-0.18 localmount and netmount changes

wc -c says 44 for that. =:^)

Otherwise, looks reasonable here. =:^)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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Hash: SHA256

On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount
> -a. This is being dropped because it is util-linux specific and
> not compatible with busybox.

Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the -O
switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to reduce the
explicit listing of the different fs types or otherwise simplify the
init script code) right?  I'm just wondering if this paragraph is
actually necessary or not..

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount
>> -a. This is being dropped because it is util-linux specific and
>> not compatible with busybox.
> 
> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the -O
> switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to reduce the
> explicit listing of the different fs types or otherwise simplify the
> init script code) right?  I'm just wondering if this paragraph is
> actually necessary or not..

As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does this affect
me?". I have to go read man pages and init scripts to find out.

Perhaps this:

Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount -a,
because it is util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox. This
only affects mounts with "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab.
Such systems should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is
>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>> 
>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the
>> -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to reduce
>> the explicit listing of the different fs types or otherwise
>> simplify the init script code) right?  I'm just wondering if
>> this paragraph is actually necessary or not..
> 
> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does this
> affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init scripts to find
> out.
> 
> Perhaps this:
> 
> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount
> -a, because it is util-linux specific and not compatible with
> busybox. This only affects mounts with "_netdev" listed under
> options in /etc/fstab. Such systems should use "noauto" and/or
> "nofail" as described above.
> 

Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the 'netmount'
script to identify which fstab entries are network mounts.  But we
did it a different way prior to using -O _netdev.  And since this
isn't actually related in any way to something end-users can set in
fstab (it has to do with the filesystem type itself) I don't see the
point in worrying end-users about it.

I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they no
longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as 'netmount'
will now work on busybox...?

Perhaps:
"
Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount -a,
to ensure the localmount and netmount scripts are compatible with
busybox mount.  If your system uses busybox mount please migrate any
custom workarounds you may have to the openrc localmount/netmount
services.
"





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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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Hash: SHA256

On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is 
>>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>>> 
>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the 
>>> -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to
>>> reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types or
>>> otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm just
>>> wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or not..
> 
>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does this 
>> affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init scripts to
>> find out.
> 
>> Perhaps this:
> 
>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not
>> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with
>> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems
>> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
> 
> 
> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the 'netmount' 
> script to identify which fstab entries are network mounts.  But
> we did it a different way prior to using -O _netdev.  And since
> this isn't actually related in any way to something end-users can
> set in fstab (it has to do with the filesystem type itself) I
> don't see the point in worrying end-users about it.
> 
> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they no 
> longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as 'netmount' 
> will now work on busybox...?
> 
> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
> mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount scripts
> are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system uses busybox
> mount please migrate any custom workarounds you may have to the
> openrc localmount/netmount services. "
> 

PS - i still think we should just cut it.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[William Hubbs]

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On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> > On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> >>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> >>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
> >>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is 
> >>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
> >>> 
> >>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the 
> >>> -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to
> >>> reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types or
> >>> otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm just
> >>> wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or not..
> > 
> >> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does this 
> >> affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init scripts to
> >> find out.
> > 
> >> Perhaps this:
> > 
> >> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
> >> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not
> >> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with
> >> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems
> >> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
> > 
> > 
> > Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the 'netmount' 
> > script to identify which fstab entries are network mounts.  But
> > we did it a different way prior to using -O _netdev.  And since
> > this isn't actually related in any way to something end-users can
> > set in fstab (it has to do with the filesystem type itself) I
> > don't see the point in worrying end-users about it.
> > 
> > I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they no 
> > longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as 'netmount' 
> > will now work on busybox...?
> > 
> > Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
> > mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount scripts
> > are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system uses busybox
> > mount please migrate any custom workarounds you may have to the
> > openrc localmount/netmount services. "
> > 
> 
> PS - i still think we should just cut it.

What is it that you think we should cut?

Thanks,

William

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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On 01/10/15 09:41 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>> 
>> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
>>>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is 
>>>>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using
>>>>> the -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think
>>>>> to reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types
>>>>> or otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm
>>>>> just wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or
>>>>> not..
>>> 
>>>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does
>>>> this affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init
>>>> scripts to find out.
>>> 
>>>> Perhaps this:
>>> 
>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
>>>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not 
>>>> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with 
>>>> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems 
>>>> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the
>>> 'netmount' script to identify which fstab entries are network
>>> mounts.  But we did it a different way prior to using -O
>>> _netdev.  And since this isn't actually related in any way to
>>> something end-users can set in fstab (it has to do with the
>>> filesystem type itself) I don't see the point in worrying
>>> end-users about it.
>>> 
>>> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they
>>> no longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as
>>> 'netmount' will now work on busybox...?
>>> 
>>> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>>> for mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount
>>> scripts are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system
>>> uses busybox mount please migrate any custom workarounds you
>>> may have to the openrc localmount/netmount services. "
>>> 
>> 
>> PS - i still think we should just cut it.
> 
> What is it that you think we should cut?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> William
> 

The whole -O _netdev paragraph.  Although i'm willing to cede on
that as I didn't know end users set _netdev in fstab themselves; i
thought it was a property of filesystem types and was entirely
transparent to end-users.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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Hash: SHA256

On 01/10/15 10:15 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 01/10/15 09:41 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius 
>> wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>> 
>>> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
>>>>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is
>>>>>>>  util-linux specific and not compatible with
>>>>>>> busybox.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK,
>>>>>> using the -O switch was 'just added' by us originally
>>>>>> (i think to reduce the explicit listing of the
>>>>>> different fs types or otherwise simplify the init
>>>>>> script code) right?  I'm just wondering if this
>>>>>> paragraph is actually necessary or not..
>>>> 
>>>>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does 
>>>>> this affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init 
>>>>> scripts to find out.
>>>> 
>>>>> Perhaps this:
>>>> 
>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for 
>>>>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and
>>>>> not compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts
>>>>> with "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such
>>>>> systems should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described
>>>>> above.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the 
>>>> 'netmount' script to identify which fstab entries are
>>>> network mounts.  But we did it a different way prior to
>>>> using -O _netdev.  And since this isn't actually related in
>>>> any way to something end-users can set in fstab (it has to
>>>> do with the filesystem type itself) I don't see the point
>>>> in worrying end-users about it.
>>>> 
>>>> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that
>>>> they no longer have to use alternate means of netmounting,
>>>> as 'netmount' will now work on busybox...?
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch 
>>>> for mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount 
>>>> scripts are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system 
>>>> uses busybox mount please migrate any custom workarounds
>>>> you may have to the openrc localmount/netmount services. "
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> PS - i still think we should just cut it.
> 
>> What is it that you think we should cut?
> 
>> Thanks,
> 
>> William
> 
> 
> The whole -O _netdev paragraph.  Although i'm willing to cede on 
> that as I didn't know end users set _netdev in fstab themselves;
> i thought it was a property of filesystem types and was entirely 
> transparent to end-users.
> 

Right, so I've learned that I had entirely the wrong idea of what -O
_netdev is for.  So, nevermind on cutting this paragraph and sorry
for the noise.  :)
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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[Mike Gilbert]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 01/10/15 09:41 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
>> wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>>
>>> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is
>>>>>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using
>>>>>> the -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think
>>>>>> to reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types
>>>>>> or otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm
>>>>>> just wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or
>>>>>> not..
>>>>
>>>>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does
>>>>> this affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init
>>>>> scripts to find out.
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this:
>>>>
>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not
>>>>> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with
>>>>> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems
>>>>> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the
>>>> 'netmount' script to identify which fstab entries are network
>>>> mounts.  But we did it a different way prior to using -O
>>>> _netdev.  And since this isn't actually related in any way to
>>>> something end-users can set in fstab (it has to do with the
>>>> filesystem type itself) I don't see the point in worrying
>>>> end-users about it.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they
>>>> no longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as
>>>> 'netmount' will now work on busybox...?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>>>> for mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount
>>>> scripts are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system
>>>> uses busybox mount please migrate any custom workarounds you
>>>> may have to the openrc localmount/netmount services. "
>>>>
>>>
>>> PS - i still think we should just cut it.
>>
>> What is it that you think we should cut?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> William
>>
>
> The whole -O _netdev paragraph.  Although i'm willing to cede on
> that as I didn't know end users set _netdev in fstab themselves; i
> thought it was a property of filesystem types and was entirely
> transparent to end-users.

The _netdev option is really there to support things like iSCSI, where
you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a block device which
requires network connectivity.

I think some changes are needed here, because this change to
localmount is quite like to break this usage.

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[J. Roeleveld]

On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org>
>wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 01/10/15 09:41 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
>>> wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>>>
>>>> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is
>>>>>>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using
>>>>>>> the -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think
>>>>>>> to reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types
>>>>>>> or otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm
>>>>>>> just wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or
>>>>>>> not..
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does
>>>>>> this affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init
>>>>>> scripts to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not
>>>>>> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with
>>>>>> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems
>>>>>> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the
>>>>> 'netmount' script to identify which fstab entries are network
>>>>> mounts.  But we did it a different way prior to using -O
>>>>> _netdev.  And since this isn't actually related in any way to
>>>>> something end-users can set in fstab (it has to do with the
>>>>> filesystem type itself) I don't see the point in worrying
>>>>> end-users about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they
>>>>> no longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as
>>>>> 'netmount' will now work on busybox...?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>>>>> for mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount
>>>>> scripts are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system
>>>>> uses busybox mount please migrate any custom workarounds you
>>>>> may have to the openrc localmount/netmount services. "
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS - i still think we should just cut it.
>>>
>>> What is it that you think we should cut?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>
>> The whole -O _netdev paragraph.  Although i'm willing to cede on
>> that as I didn't know end users set _netdev in fstab themselves; i
>> thought it was a property of filesystem types and was entirely
>> transparent to end-users.
>
>The _netdev option is really there to support things like iSCSI, where
>you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a block device which
>requires network connectivity.
>
>I think some changes are needed here, because this change to
>localmount is quite like to break this usage.

I don't have that in production yet, but it is scheduled in the next few months.

If there is a different way to do this, which does not include writing a custom boot script, I am willing and able to test this.
The test environment needs upgrading to latest versions. In my todo list for this weekend.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[J. Roeleveld]

On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org>
>wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 01/10/15 09:41 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
>>> wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>>>
>>>> On 29/09/15 11:10 AM, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>> On 29/09/15 10:52 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>>>>> mount/umount -a. This is being dropped because it is
>>>>>>>> util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using
>>>>>>> the -O switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think
>>>>>>> to reduce the explicit listing of the different fs types
>>>>>>> or otherwise simplify the init script code) right?  I'm
>>>>>>> just wondering if this paragraph is actually necessary or
>>>>>>> not..
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does
>>>>>> this affect me?". I have to go read man pages and init
>>>>>> scripts to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps this:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for
>>>>>> mount/umount -a, because it is util-linux specific and not
>>>>>> compatible with busybox. This only affects mounts with
>>>>>> "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab. Such systems
>>>>>> should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly my thoughts.  We used -O _netdev within the
>>>>> 'netmount' script to identify which fstab entries are network
>>>>> mounts.  But we did it a different way prior to using -O
>>>>> _netdev.  And since this isn't actually related in any way to
>>>>> something end-users can set in fstab (it has to do with the
>>>>> filesystem type itself) I don't see the point in worrying
>>>>> end-users about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose it's worthwhile to note to busybox users that they
>>>>> no longer have to use alternate means of netmounting, as
>>>>> 'netmount' will now work on busybox...?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps: " Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>>>>> for mount/umount -a, to ensure the localmount and netmount
>>>>> scripts are compatible with busybox mount.  If your system
>>>>> uses busybox mount please migrate any custom workarounds you
>>>>> may have to the openrc localmount/netmount services. "
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS - i still think we should just cut it.
>>>
>>> What is it that you think we should cut?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>
>> The whole -O _netdev paragraph.  Although i'm willing to cede on
>> that as I didn't know end users set _netdev in fstab themselves; i
>> thought it was a property of filesystem types and was entirely
>> transparent to end-users.
>
>The _netdev option is really there to support things like iSCSI, where
>you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a block device which
>requires network connectivity.
>
>I think some changes are needed here, because this change to
>localmount is quite like to break this usage.

All,

I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is, it would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.

1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently. (Currently sd×, maybe to something like scs×)
2) Have 'localmount' ignore those entries in fstab.
3) Have 'netmount' (or similar) mount those entries.

I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this doesn't make any sense at all, let me know.
I will investigate this more over the weekend.

--
Joost 
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[Ian Stakenvicius]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Since this conversation is now technical rather than news-item
related, I've changed to a new thread.

On 01/10/15 02:17 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert
> <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>>>>>>>>> for mount/umount -a. This is being dropped
>>>>>>>>> because it is util-linux specific and not
>>>>>>>>> compatible with busybox.
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>> The _netdev option is really there to support things like
>> iSCSI, where you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a
>> block device which requires network connectivity.
>> 
>> I think some changes are needed here, because this change to 
>> localmount is quite like to break this usage.
> 
> All,
> 
> I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is, it
> would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.
> 
> 1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently. (Currently
> sd×, maybe to something like scs×) 2) Have 'localmount' ignore
> those entries in fstab. 3) Have 'netmount' (or similar) mount
> those entries.
> 
> I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this doesn't
> make any sense at all, let me know. I will investigate this more
> over the weekend.
> 

At this point, we need to verify the whole reason for its removal is
actually accurate -- it seems it was dropped due to bug 468600,
which is about -O [no]_netdev not being recognized by busybox mount.
 However, there are comments in the bug and notes in busybox
documentation which seems to indicate that -O support has been in
busybox since 1.20.2, and current stable is 1.23.1-r1..  If the
issue is still confirmed, then we can look into alternative methods
of handling iscsi.

Unfortunately, filtering out targets for 'mount -a' based on their
/dev name is entirely not supported by any mount that I know of, so
the method listed above will likely be harder rather than easier to
implement, so I don't think renaming them will be of much use (not
to mention that it would entirely remove the possibility of mounting
based on UUID and similar)




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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[William Hubbs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2686 bytes --]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 02:42:15PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> Since this conversation is now technical rather than news-item
> related, I've changed to a new thread.
> 
> On 01/10/15 02:17 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert
> > <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
> >>>>>>>>> for mount/umount -a. This is being dropped
> >>>>>>>>> because it is util-linux specific and not
> >>>>>>>>> compatible with busybox.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >> 
> >> The _netdev option is really there to support things like
> >> iSCSI, where you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a
> >> block device which requires network connectivity.
> >> 
> >> I think some changes are needed here, because this change to 
> >> localmount is quite like to break this usage.
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is, it
> > would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.
> > 
> > 1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently. (Currently
> > sd??, maybe to something like scs??) 2) Have 'localmount' ignore
> > those entries in fstab. 3) Have 'netmount' (or similar) mount
> > those entries.
> > 
> > I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this doesn't
> > make any sense at all, let me know. I will investigate this more
> > over the weekend.
> > 
> 
> At this point, we need to verify the whole reason for its removal is
> actually accurate -- it seems it was dropped due to bug 468600,
> which is about -O [no]_netdev not being recognized by busybox mount.
>  However, there are comments in the bug and notes in busybox
> documentation which seems to indicate that -O support has been in
> busybox since 1.20.2, and current stable is 1.23.1-r1..  If the
> issue is still confirmed, then we can look into alternative methods
> of handling iscsi.

The original plan was to move to a point where everyone puts _netdev in
their fstab for network mounts on Linux so that we don't have to track
file system types like we do in OpenRC right now.  On Linux,

mount -a -O _netdev

would mount all network file systems and

umount -a -O _netdev

would unmount them.  On busybox, the last time I checked, umount -a
doesn't support -O at all.

I'm thinking the best way to handle iscsi, since it requires network
connectivity, would be to just have nofail on the fstab entries for it
instead of _netdev, that is if iscsi can pick up the mounts after
network connectivity comes up.

William

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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[Mike Gilbert]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:16 PM, William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 02:42:15PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Since this conversation is now technical rather than news-item
>> related, I've changed to a new thread.
>>
>> On 01/10/15 02:17 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> > On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert
>> > <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch
>> >>>>>>>>> for mount/umount -a. This is being dropped
>> >>>>>>>>> because it is util-linux specific and not
>> >>>>>>>>> compatible with busybox.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >> The _netdev option is really there to support things like
>> >> iSCSI, where you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from a
>> >> block device which requires network connectivity.
>> >>
>> >> I think some changes are needed here, because this change to
>> >> localmount is quite like to break this usage.
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> > I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is, it
>> > would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.
>> >
>> > 1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently. (Currently
>> > sd??, maybe to something like scs??) 2) Have 'localmount' ignore
>> > those entries in fstab. 3) Have 'netmount' (or similar) mount
>> > those entries.
>> >
>> > I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this doesn't
>> > make any sense at all, let me know. I will investigate this more
>> > over the weekend.
>> >
>>
>> At this point, we need to verify the whole reason for its removal is
>> actually accurate -- it seems it was dropped due to bug 468600,
>> which is about -O [no]_netdev not being recognized by busybox mount.
>>  However, there are comments in the bug and notes in busybox
>> documentation which seems to indicate that -O support has been in
>> busybox since 1.20.2, and current stable is 1.23.1-r1..  If the
>> issue is still confirmed, then we can look into alternative methods
>> of handling iscsi.
>
> The original plan was to move to a point where everyone puts _netdev in
> their fstab for network mounts on Linux so that we don't have to track
> file system types like we do in OpenRC right now.  On Linux,
>
> mount -a -O _netdev
>
> would mount all network file systems and
>
> umount -a -O _netdev
>
> would unmount them.  On busybox, the last time I checked, umount -a
> doesn't support -O at all.
>
> I'm thinking the best way to handle iscsi, since it requires network
> connectivity, would be to just have nofail on the fstab entries for it
> instead of _netdev, that is if iscsi can pick up the mounts after
> network connectivity comes up.

That introduces a requirement for another init script to mount network
block devices, where previously it would have been covered by
netmount.

I don't think nofail is appropriate anyway; that flag is supposed to
indicate to mount that we don't care if the device does not exist.
However, once the network is up and the devices are supposed to have
been created, we do very much care if they do not exist.

Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 10/01/2015 10:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote:

> 
> On busybox, the last time I checked, umount -a doesn't support -O
> at all.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=468600 seems to indicate it
does, see comment 1: "It seems busybox-1.21.0 mount has -O (capital O)
option support. I can do mount -a -O no_netdev and and mount -a -O
_netdev with mount honoring _netdev in fstab."


- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[Ian Stakenvicius]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 01/10/15 04:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 02:42:15PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>> 
>> Since this conversation is now technical rather than news-item 
>> related, I've changed to a new thread.
>> 
>> On 01/10/15 02:17 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert 
>>> <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O
>>>>>>>>>>> switch for mount/umount -a. This is being
>>>>>>>>>>> dropped because it is util-linux specific and
>>>>>>>>>>> not compatible with busybox.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The _netdev option is really there to support things like 
>>>> iSCSI, where you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from
>>>> a block device which requires network connectivity.
>>>> 
>>>> I think some changes are needed here, because this change
>>>> to localmount is quite like to break this usage.
>>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is,
>>> it would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.
>>> 
>>> 1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently.
>>> (Currently sd??, maybe to something like scs??) 2) Have
>>> 'localmount' ignore those entries in fstab. 3) Have
>>> 'netmount' (or similar) mount those entries.
>>> 
>>> I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this
>>> doesn't make any sense at all, let me know. I will
>>> investigate this more over the weekend.
>>> 
>> 
>> At this point, we need to verify the whole reason for its
>> removal is actually accurate -- it seems it was dropped due to
>> bug 468600, which is about -O [no]_netdev not being recognized
>> by busybox mount. However, there are comments in the bug and
>> notes in busybox documentation which seems to indicate that -O
>> support has been in busybox since 1.20.2, and current stable is
>> 1.23.1-r1..  If the issue is still confirmed, then we can look
>> into alternative methods of handling iscsi.
> 
> The original plan was to move to a point where everyone puts
> _netdev in their fstab for network mounts on Linux so that we
> don't have to track file system types like we do in OpenRC right
> now.  On Linux,
> 
> mount -a -O _netdev
> 
> would mount all network file systems and
> 
> umount -a -O _netdev
> 
> would unmount them.  On busybox, the last time I checked, umount
> -a doesn't support -O at all.
> 

(putting aside the removal of the openrc net-fs list and the need to
require -all- network mounts to need _netdev in /etc/fstab for a while
)

When did you last check busybox?  Indications seem to be that
busybox has received this support a few versions ago.  My quick
'busybox mount -v -a -O _netdev ; busybox mount -v -a -O no_netdev'
seems to indicate it's supported fine with current stable busybox.
So i think this removal can just be rolled back as it's based on
obsolete knowledge.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[William Hubbs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3384 bytes --]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 04:56:55PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> On 01/10/15 04:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 02:42:15PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius
> > wrote:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
> >> 
> >> Since this conversation is now technical rather than news-item 
> >> related, I've changed to a new thread.
> >> 
> >> On 01/10/15 02:17 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> On 1 October 2015 17:49:15 CEST, Mike Gilbert 
> >>> <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O
> >>>>>>>>>>> switch for mount/umount -a. This is being
> >>>>>>>>>>> dropped because it is util-linux specific and
> >>>>>>>>>>> not compatible with busybox.
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> The _netdev option is really there to support things like 
> >>>> iSCSI, where you are mounting a filesystem like ext4 from
> >>>> a block device which requires network connectivity.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I think some changes are needed here, because this change
> >>>> to localmount is quite like to break this usage.
> >>> 
> >>> All,
> >>> 
> >>> I had a thought. Not sure if this is possible and if it is,
> >>> it would mean a change to the fstab for people using iSCSI.
> >>> 
> >>> 1) Add an udev rule to name iSCSI devices differently.
> >>> (Currently sd??, maybe to something like scs??) 2) Have
> >>> 'localmount' ignore those entries in fstab. 3) Have
> >>> 'netmount' (or similar) mount those entries.
> >>> 
> >>> I haven't looked into the current scripts yet, so if this
> >>> doesn't make any sense at all, let me know. I will
> >>> investigate this more over the weekend.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> At this point, we need to verify the whole reason for its
> >> removal is actually accurate -- it seems it was dropped due to
> >> bug 468600, which is about -O [no]_netdev not being recognized
> >> by busybox mount. However, there are comments in the bug and
> >> notes in busybox documentation which seems to indicate that -O
> >> support has been in busybox since 1.20.2, and current stable is
> >> 1.23.1-r1..  If the issue is still confirmed, then we can look
> >> into alternative methods of handling iscsi.
> > 
> > The original plan was to move to a point where everyone puts
> > _netdev in their fstab for network mounts on Linux so that we
> > don't have to track file system types like we do in OpenRC right
> > now.  On Linux,
> > 
> > mount -a -O _netdev
> > 
> > would mount all network file systems and
> > 
> > umount -a -O _netdev
> > 
> > would unmount them.  On busybox, the last time I checked, umount
> > -a doesn't support -O at all.
> > 
> 
> (putting aside the removal of the openrc net-fs list and the need to
> require -all- network mounts to need _netdev in /etc/fstab for a while
> )
> 
> When did you last check busybox?  Indications seem to be that
> busybox has received this support a few versions ago.  My quick
> 'busybox mount -v -a -O _netdev ; busybox mount -v -a -O no_netdev'
> seems to indicate it's supported fine with current stable busybox.
> So i think this removal can just be rolled back as it's based on
> obsolete knowledge.

Please read my statement above again; I said umount not mount. ;-)

William


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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 10/01/2015 11:04 PM, William Hubbs wrote:

> 
> Please read my statement above again; I said umount not mount. ;-)

Not tested that, but isn't that something that should be fixed in
busybox? is there an upstream bug for it if it isn't supported?


- -- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] OpenRC 0.18 changes -O _netdev

[William Hubbs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 879 bytes --]

On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 11:07:48PM +0200, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On 10/01/2015 11:04 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Please read my statement above again; I said umount not mount. ;-)
> 
> Not tested that, but isn't that something that should be fixed in
> busybox? is there an upstream bug for it if it isn't supported?

You are correct, this is an issue that should be fixed in busybox.

However, there are several other issues that make openrc not work well
with busybox [1], and I haven't seen any movement on fixing them either,
so I'm not holding my breath. The only option I have at this point is to
try to move away from these features where possible and tell busybox
users that the remaining ones won't work for them.

William

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=529086

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Re: [gentoo-dev] news item: OpenRC 0.18 changes to localmount and netmount

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 04:52:51 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 29/09/2015 16:29, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> > On 28/09/15 06:58 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> >> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount
> >> -a. This is being dropped because it is util-linux specific and
> >> not compatible with busybox.
> > 
> > Does this have any actual end-user impact?  AFAIK, using the -O
> > switch was 'just added' by us originally (i think to reduce the
> > explicit listing of the different fs types or otherwise simplify the
> > init script code) right?  I'm just wondering if this paragraph is
> > actually necessary or not..
> 
> As a user, that para in the news makes me ask "how does this affect
> me?". I have to go read man pages and init scripts to find out.
> 
> Perhaps this:
> 
> Also, we are dropping the use of the -O switch for mount/umount -a,
> because it is util-linux specific and not compatible with busybox. This
> only affects mounts with "_netdev" listed under options in /etc/fstab.
> Such systems should use "noauto" and/or "nofail" as described above.

Does anyone know how to solve the issue when depending on iSCSI devices?
I had to add "_netdev" to ensure those would not fail during boot.

--
Joost