From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DCD2138334 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:39:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA3F3E0833; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77B16E07D8 for ; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whubbs1.gaikai.biz (unknown [100.42.103.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: williamh) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E19C34BDAF; Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:39:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (nullmailer pid 29059 invoked by uid 1000); Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:39:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 10:39:23 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: kumba@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH] use.desc: add global USE flag 'split-sbin' Message-ID: <20191016153923.GA29013@whubbs1.dev.av1.gaikai.org> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org, kumba@gentoo.org References: <1bbad081be57654e20e590734ed8aa88dc6f6176.camel@gentoo.org> <20191012160228.GA2481@linux1.home> <25763900.3IMS5cSOPn@ernie> <86031cc11741c13b354ad85577a1e32c4ca97460.camel@gentoo.org> <0b3627cb08065b8d6d02a1d8826ab316ecdaccd0.camel@gentoo.org> <4fdaaef8-b25f-ee2f-505e-d647251d6af9@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4fdaaef8-b25f-ee2f-505e-d647251d6af9@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Archives-Salt: 44eb1c49-030b-47e6-8339-bdbc9a493b05 X-Archives-Hash: 79fa799ad839c9263f8b7b99c50bf517 --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:08:14PM -0400, Joshua Kinard wrote: > On 10/15/2019 13:34, David Seifert wrote: > > On Tue, 2019-10-15 at 12:04 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:02 PM Mike Gilbert > >> wrote: > >>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:00 AM David Seifert > >>> wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 2019-10-13 at 12:33 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > >>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 1:52 PM David Seifert > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 19:01 +0200, Dennis Schridde wrote: > >>>>>>> On Samstag, 12. Oktober 2019 18:02:28 CEST William Hubbs > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 01:11:49PM +0200, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2019-10-12 at 13:00 +0200, David Seifert wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> * Some distros have not just merged / and /usr, they > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> have also merged /usr/bin and /usr/sbin. By giving > >>>>>>>>>> users the choice of merging */bin and */sbin, > >>>>>>>>>> Gentoo follows suit. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> What about the scenario when /bin has been merged with > >>>>>>>>> /usr/sbin > >>>>>>>>> and /sbin with /usr/bin? ;-P > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I also don't see the need for something like this. The > >>>>>>>> idea of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> /usr > >>>>>>>> merge is to have all binaries available in one place, and > >>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>> really > >>>>>>>> is not a good justification for separating bin from sbin. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Do I read this correctly? USE=3D-split-usr currently means > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> /bin, > >>>>>>> /sbin, / > >>>>>>> usr/bin and /usr/sbin point to the same directory? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If that is not the case, then I agree that users should > >>>>>>> have the > >>>>>>> possibility > >>>>>>> to set it up like this and USE=3D-split-sbin should be > >>>>>>> supported. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --Dennis > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I agree, I wasn't aware that USE=3D-split-usr implies the > >>>>>> complete 2- > >>>>>> level (/usr and *sbin) merge. In that case, all of this is > >>>>>> obsolete. > >>>>> > >>>>> That was NOT my intention when I introduced the split-usr USE > >>>>> flag. > >>>>> > >>>>> For bin/sbin, I would prefer to drop any conflicting links > >>>>> unconditionally. Do you have examples of scenarios where this > >>>>> is not > >>>>> possible? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> William has confirmed on IRC that USE=3D-split-usr performs the > >>>> complete > >>>> Fedora-esque /usr merge (which makes sense IMO). > >>> > >>> William's opinion is not the only one that matters. > >> > >> Sorry, I guess you are referring to the behavior baselayout? That > >> doesn't necessarily align with the global usage. > >> > >=20 > > https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/baselayout.git/tree/Makefile#n93 > >=20 > > Clearly the usr-merge in baselayout intends to merge all these 4 > > directories. There is currently no option to merge /usr and / but keep > > /bin and /sbin separate, so the most parsimonious solution here is to > > assume that usr-merge semantics in Gentoo is about merging all 4 > > directories. >=20 > What is the source or origin point of the desire to merge /sbin into /bin? > I know Fedora/RedHat championed the /usr/[s]bin into /[s]bin bit, but this > is the first I've heard of trying to put all executables in one spot. I > have my doubts about such an idea, but want to see what the rationale is > this time before writing the idea off to the funny farm. >=20 > My understanding for the separation was system binaries that only the > superuser needs to touch go into /sbin and everything else into /bin. Th= is > allowed for unpriv user PATHs to exclude /sbin (and in times antiquity, a= lso > exclude /usr/sbin). Back in the day, the s in /sbin and /usr/sbin meant static, not super user. All binaries in those directories were statically linked. https://www.osnews.com/story/25556/understanding-the-bin-sbin-usrbin-usrsbi= n-split/ http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html The tl;dr is that the meaning of /sbin and /usr/sbin was lost years ago. William --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQTVeuxEZo4uUHOkQAluVBb0MMRlOAUCXac5pQAKCRBuVBb0MMRl OJy1AKCe/V0k/vl7qY0Kt0BO2Ama0P3LKACfX/QD9bRc3L7WlurfZOp8QfgIf80= =RHAr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gKMricLos+KVdGMg--