From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA3DB138334 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:03:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EB026E089B; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org (cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org [IPv6:2a01:4f8:1c17:4b6d::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 721FFE088C for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 2892fc68 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:03:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=hacktivis.me; h=date :from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to; s=20190711_142157; bh=sB n04mTYfSiEGTnm+DbnsMOeop1A44B6yqTYtWiP3EM=; b=BQteU9uk1wIP83W5Ya 2d9V7q2lS8/xi0XJAf6PIjVLKxtiIFeej9RsytdVTmyVVNAS5tRkyN9b8o/iSAXN Tu/iivMgViLitXPtBYoCdjuuV7RL1Er/slgLq7ARxgoJlfm/oIE/IvZNXuJ9AGxK Cfy2KrulfmQ9u5cnEubVT1O4LwUps3s48Vk8SIC2u3IJqVVA/zJHrRzDuoCgM5nn /xK/zqFMh2JkWgZ7JV1ffLKg1+OWIk8Abr24ZLQv4sPFzmc1AIZjDdut/SqpJ7M2 rqguEgxjxi1J2lk8nIzT2uo9Yf81B6F5sY9jT73lsQ0wQRbzHwE9PlP8U6c/OTle V0BX7goG9gJjlbO7OCerL7DXP12QUZXbMvLaocDiE042jCYX4Gg0jRvqBtvdrwUU oUQ/yg4aIf1I5awZyC9TY+dxyj2u2E1nuQ7XRL/dBhRvGre0H5y/mSZcqc1kj/1z CNlngmewGD3oq5JAyd+pHBnnF4giIXWNo12pATZ54oxYeF6oDP6OkR6gQryfu3si XWnHMxCp2FB/NxN/bQsnHLsjkxKieXh39aw6+g68mADcngy0dLc8aOtMFjTjxll9 hmHb1BLdnrQ7wOt5uwuIRP+/mA88fxJVQYjh1/r3Zj62iOLNaUuSGXCEUs5f7iA8 04UPSBYAjrLU/xBlKtngic5O0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=hacktivis.me; h=date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to; q=dns; s=20190711_142157; b= eCib6RgdYxK1FoeRdfTaFIDlw9Qe8sb2ccm7/entIGYZvs013qsgDysZEqPvJaUM 7o1YGCQYDORM5O25nZgaJGwKZ5iUvvIfBqOTtXublWGZQdvpl+QY5aE45AN/nQfS lhbi9LCxOUc35xph1gExv5cE9Fh5doak2FLYuiJG24AFBUob2vDFYvbDgSq/e86C r+RuhYsqmvryopeM0/00cwhhGWlr//CiXndeVTNDCjL19ElfGPExaPtMKqwNtdA0 2kjLd2Gj43JXNLmX9qLCNR719oIjMaqWgmaPKPJ+m/22wAFNDmA2YH4k4GQGSs4Z 1bwtwvePA9qCr59lVYsqPQRw183c3uk0qmk51v2sp3Rtlw0h9rHhl9CNectCgaHH 2ts8EUn6S300seNw0fgkx3lxRh96XClM+hAqDjaXfumq1W6PpfVLiSvjxinhmfGk iFZKfOssgjdBLJ8OBzg0zaVDArrGGjAojiMwFQuwDmM7KL8vcOO1df1KwWH1mYC8 RLlgktQaf4Vvn/XddTB+ibC1wv/1KfH2+I2kPjelh8Ie+8fn0QXBb2KYmxNt3kK8 twZFyJwwbokRvshIsYqgIMuW/Pl8P6OgSvOQLOjt36ryKtX7rl1rWuhF7tVHP2me uA6MS69qCtmxovMbxffaW26w9f/a7gzURRBkHkNcgEs= Received: from localhost (cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org [local]) by cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 8ae28c79 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:03:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 21:03:24 +0200 From: "Haelwenn (lanodan) Monnier" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Underscores in USE flags Message-ID: <20190920190324.GA31594@cloudsdale.the-delta.net.eu.org> References: <5fc919ec85751bd88d4bf0775ba1733584f92dc2.camel@gentoo.org> <20e57b194284c4d20e6781573fd0387257aed9f1.camel@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Archives-Salt: 7bf7eecc-05a4-4573-ba75-205a8452fa17 X-Archives-Hash: 0696b8ca9ba5f86fe4a6558d3238162e [2019-09-20 13:24:45-0400] Mike Gilbert: > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:55 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > On Fri, 2019-09-20 at 12:41 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:11 PM Michał Górny wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2019-09-20 at 11:46 -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > > > > > Recently, a large number of bugs were filed against packages that have > > > > > USE flag names which contain underscores. Apparently PMS prohibits > > > > > this except when the USE flag is part of a USE_EXPAND variable. > > > > > > > > > > https://projects.gentoo.org/pms/7/pms.html#x1-200003.1.4 > > > > > > > > > > I'm not certain when this text was added to PMS, or how many of the > > > > > affected USE flags pre-date this policy. > > > > > > > > > > Portage seems to have no issue dealing with underscores, so this > > > > > doesn't seem to be solving any technical problem. > > > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure that renaming a bunch of USE flags will cause some > > > > > amount of end-user confusion, for very little benefit. Is enforcing > > > > > this part of PMS really worth it? > > > > > > > > And having packages with pretended-USE_EXPAND-that-does-not-work-as- > > > > USE_EXPAND is less confusing to the users? > > > > > > I doubt users immediately think "USE_EXPAND" when they see an underscore. > > > > > > Portage's seems fairly unambiguous to me. For example: > > > > > > % emerge -pv1O app-misc/foo > > > > > > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > > > > > [ebuild N ] app-misc/foo-0::local USE="-modern_kernel" > > > PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_7" VIDEO_CARDS="radeon" 0 KiB > > > > > > Total: 1 package (1 new), Size of downloads: 0 KiB > > > > > > I don't think anyone would mistake "modern_kernel" for a USE_EXPAND > > > value given the above. > > > > Look at the humongous list of flags on dev-libs/aws-sdk-cpp. They all > > start with 'aws_targets' which is a clear attempt to emulate USE_EXPAND. > > Expect that they won't work as USE_EXPAND, user typing: > > > > AWS_TARGETS="foo bar baz" > > > > will just wildly confused, and in the end this prefixing is just silly > > and causes the flag names to become awfully long. > > Ok, so you chery-picked one particularly horrible example. The Portage > output still puts them in USE="" section, though the user probably > won't see that given the massive USE flag list. > > My point still stands for many of the other packages in the repo that > don't have several dozen flags. While that's true for portage, it is false for gentoolkit with the `equery u ` command. Following your original example it would be something like: % equery y app-misc/foo [ Legend : U - final flag setting for installation] [ : I - package is installed with flag ] [ Colors : set, unset ] * Found these USE flags for app-misc/foo-0::local U I - - modern_kernel : Install init scripts for 3.18 or higher kernels with atomic rule updates + + python_targets_python3_7 : Build with Python 3.7 - - video_cards_radeon : VIDEO_CARDS setting to build driver for ATI radeon video cards And with a bunch more of USE flags (not with having to go to extremes like dev-libs/aws-sdk-cpp) it is very confusing a lot of time on machines where app-portage/eix would be overkill I had to check on another machine.