[gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Michał Górny]

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# Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
# Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
# version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
# in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
# Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
dev-util/staruml-bin
=dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[James Le Cuirot]

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On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:

> # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> dev-util/staruml-bin
> =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*

I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
causes many issues.

If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's
otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it
to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases.

-- 
James Le Cuirot (chewi)
Gentoo Linux Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Michał Górny]

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On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> 
> I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> causes many issues.

I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.

> If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's
> otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it
> to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases.

Yeah, moving to Steam overlay is what I'd suggest.  However, you want to
talk to crypto@ people since they flagged it for removal.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > 
> > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > causes many issues.
> 
> I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.

Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[James Le Cuirot]

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On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >   
> > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*  
> > 
> > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > causes many issues.  
> 
> I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.

That is even more viable now that Steam can be forced to use Proton but
I still choose native, as I'm sure many would.

> > If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's
> > otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it
> > to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases.  
> 
> Yeah, moving to Steam overlay is what I'd suggest.  However, you want to
> talk to crypto@ people since they flagged it for removal.

Will do.

-- 
James Le Cuirot (chewi)
Gentoo Linux Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Michał Górny]

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On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > 
> > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > causes many issues.
> > 
> > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> 
> Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> 

Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?

Because apparently Portal works faster via wine-d3d9 than natively [1]. 
Sometimes a thin 'emulation' of good API may yield better results than
use of a poor API.

[1]:https://wiki.ixit.cz/d3d9

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > > 
> > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > > causes many issues.
> > > 
> > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> > 
> > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> > 
> 
> Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?

Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old
box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the
same box via wine-d3d9.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Michał Górny]

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On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > > > causes many issues.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> > > 
> > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> > > 
> > 
> > Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?
> 
> Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old
> box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the
> same box via wine-d3d9.
> 

That's not really a data point.  Unless you can actually test it (or
otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely
complaining that you can't use the faster solution.

I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're
stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from-
complete OSS drivers.  However, that doesn't prove that the native
version would be faster at all.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > > > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > > > > causes many issues.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> > > > 
> > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?
> > 
> > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old
> > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the
> > same box via wine-d3d9.
> > 
> 
> That's not really a data point.  Unless you can actually test it (or
> otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely
> complaining that you can't use the faster solution.
> 
> I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're
> stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from-
> complete OSS drivers.  However, that doesn't prove that the native
> version would be faster at all.

If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's
why the native version is faster. 

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Michał Górny]

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On Mon, 2019-03-18 at 19:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > > > > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > > > > > causes many issues.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?
> > > 
> > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old
> > > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the
> > > same box via wine-d3d9.
> > > 
> > 
> > That's not really a data point.  Unless you can actually test it (or
> > otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely
> > complaining that you can't use the faster solution.
> > 
> > I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're
> > stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from-
> > complete OSS drivers.  However, that doesn't prove that the native
> > version would be faster at all.
> 
> If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's
> why the native version is faster. 
> 

Wrong.  If it doesn't work, it consumes very little CPU/GPU cycles. 
Therefore, it is much more efficient than the working version.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:09:47 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-03-18 at 19:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +0000, James Le Cuirot wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100
> > > > > > > > Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> (15 Mar 2019)
> > > > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378).  Current
> > > > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are
> > > > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740).
> > > > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days.  Bug #677486.
> > > > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin
> > > > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5*
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy
> > > > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary
> > > > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by
> > > > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in
> > > > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it
> > > > > > > > causes many issues.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native
> > > > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works
> > > > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you have any data to support that?  Or is it 'obvious'?
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old
> > > > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the
> > > > same box via wine-d3d9.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > That's not really a data point.  Unless you can actually test it (or
> > > otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely
> > > complaining that you can't use the faster solution.
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're
> > > stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from-
> > > complete OSS drivers.  However, that doesn't prove that the native
> > > version would be faster at all.
> > 
> > If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's
> > why the native version is faster. 
> > 
> 
> Wrong.  If it doesn't work, it consumes very little CPU/GPU cycles. 
> Therefore, it is much more efficient than the working version.
 
But it hangs, consuming all CPU cycles possible.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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