From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0932C1382C5 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 02:27:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CF75E081E; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 02:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46463E0806 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 02:27:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from katipo2.lan (unknown [203.86.205.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: kentnl) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84FF3335C36 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 02:27:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:26:38 +1300 From: Kent Fredric To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] New Portage fork: sys-apps/portage-mgorny Message-ID: <20180325152638.53dca26a@katipo2.lan> In-Reply-To: <25def267-c246-7c47-48f9-d889c9087ef2@gentoo.org> References: <1521745426.836.25.camel@gentoo.org> <20180322214732.GA4096@eddy> <1521756383.23424.0.camel@gentoo.org> <23220.52565.280134.566970@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <0559e21f-edcb-986f-0a0b-1bc54bc169a6@gmail.com> <23220.56500.47110.798699@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <20180324200239.24cde39f@katipo2.lan> <1521878540.1070.0.camel@gentoo.org> <20180324220114.748273c5@katipo2.lan> <7f211ecf-a415-b91a-25fb-6cb1b456a8ca@gentoo.org> <20180325093340.4237c829@katipo2.lan> <25def267-c246-7c47-48f9-d889c9087ef2@gentoo.org> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.1-dirty (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/zob_RXNDo.g8/o+tKbj38cQ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 49b73a35-f572-4626-bf53-92655e6d9e56 X-Archives-Hash: c52206557ce629dee0a151f596a798ca --Sig_/zob_RXNDo.g8/o+tKbj38cQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:44:49 -0700 Zac Medico wrote: > That only happens when dependency satisfaction fails by normal means. And when that happens, it is better to bail and go "Uh oh, something bad", not "oh, right, lets install something that will likely make things worse and additional work to fix" Its a regular occurrence that we have to tell people about this on #gentoo. >=20 > > That default gets people using broken openssl and experimental > > packages blindly without them ever having intended on getting into > > experimental waters. =20 >=20 > If people can't be bothered to understand the meaning of package.mask > and keywords changes, should they really be using Gentoo? And its not *entirely* true that this is the case. Toralf used to complain portage couldn't find a resoultion and would try unmasking insane stuff in the process of tinderboxing. But lo and behold, by removing the ability to unmask ** and package.mask, he reported a significant improvement in the ability to test. "RTFM?" is a terrible response to "you have bad defaults that make things break" because that default is *only* useful to people who would consider using things that have *zero* expectation that they would work. And that is not any majority demographic of the Gentoo user base. Its not a useless feature, but its a feature that should only be enabled after reading the documentation. --Sig_/zob_RXNDo.g8/o+tKbj38cQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEPZazbI/qrFT1o9rn6FQySxNmqCAFAlq3COoACgkQ6FQySxNm qCDA6w//T+4TfnX4aIRXBYcTBpv87+NNWjg3Hn605AxBbAWiKOaHvzprQQnQHjHW ArFY39tMMoTJ4+MosyXgdoOykw7gr0ZAuXJkUiBuUSqio9Yw/OM7HU0+9YL/d+wI FFLf5CxxucKA8uaaSQ4+W74HRwwRSlBZ6JGhS4uH4aNEAMghkPQ9tRwDN4hQRYCe GjZT7ggD1AtnWWmh4ZV4IwYkjQpv8kEO+DGJ/Sj4kMYydvMoE+bImGXQnA/wGo84 nN2d3x+3mXe1TvMgYkXm+6jxoa+EuP7Y4fLQYtDLBidtJsCY2+x3tQknpcQAwRwA lunzCaHnXIP1AxA8XuzPjmZflw2dGmDgK2vfiikycOFtqcrPOiPaQR7HA5JdBa/6 dw5aT3WY2VozudbKBSKWBGUQlpXPdGvZaoq1n3J/NvZyw74PPo/D0s0YIyY4Fsoe NLCvtRA8U0MEw/scHX0HzFFggwD290gjO4VRtAtfs3Fe7isISdpESRcZCsXvHB7N k+IHjrfo2dtPtkoqlIgQWDDWqvW1Cd/b/ciIifzvy5fhHd+rHIrD5U9qNT+wDImf HcBdZ6KcN5PfYTM7SMV4yOxajqm+YPfWhD1xKLiYpIlpPpRC/lbfBMHOvhLc+Q1j uaLMyRrnl9QknQIwz/iD6WyRRKQqcEKWVQCA3+GPDkZuyg0Wejw= =n+Ht -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/zob_RXNDo.g8/o+tKbj38cQ--