From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8385E1382C5 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:42:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C5812E0AA1; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:42:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C68DE0A10 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:42:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gentoo.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:e1cc:3::10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: prometheanfire) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0ED5E335C3C for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 13:42:44 -0600 From: Matthew Thode To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: That's all folks. (Re: OT Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-project] [RFC] Splitting developer-oriented and expert user mailing lists) Message-ID: <20180211194244.hhkbhimaiswsu2lb@gentoo.org> References: <1512256684.30000.48.camel@gentoo.org> <07a58a98-963c-f44d-7c36-680625eb370c@gentoo.org> <3507626.Rbvgo18spg@pinacolada> <20171210002924.GA7321@clocktown> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pxdaypcyr35fqr7h" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20171210002924.GA7321@clocktown> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20171215 X-Archives-Salt: 20a650dd-a537-44b2-bc78-026040666a57 X-Archives-Hash: a143266187c8090fdcbe2169842f53ba --pxdaypcyr35fqr7h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 17-12-09 16:29:24, Daniel Campbell wrote: > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:22:32PM +0100, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017, 19:06:36 CET schrieb William L. Thomso= n Jr.: > > >=20 > > > The day everyone wanted has come, after this message. I will > > > unsubscribe not to return. You all won in 2008, and again in 2017. > > > Though this time I will not be back. I tried more than most anyone el= se > > > would for a very long time. Gentoo wins I lose, I am fine with that. > > >=20 > > > Please do not contact me off list in IRC or at all. I am done with the > > > Gentoo community! > >=20 > > > > Independent of whether William now unsubscribed or not, he's now enjoyi= ng a=20 > > lengthy (1 year until review) vacation from all Gentoo communication ch= annels. > > > >=20 > > --=20 > > Andreas K. H=C3=BCttel > > dilfridge@gentoo.org > > Gentoo Linux developer (council, perl, libreoffice) >=20 > So, mgorny threatened to leave if something wasn't done, right? I saw > the IRC conversation about unsubscribing from gentoo-dev, as well. IRC > is not private, for the record. Other developers are required to > subscribe to -dev, and are expected to follow it so they stay informed. > If they missed something covered on the list, they are directed to the > archives and (usually) laughed at. I see no reason for this expectation > to be waived for any single developer. Do I get a free pass if I don't > like what someone says? >=20 > It's not enough to let wltjr leave on his own; you had to create a ban > and add a smug, tongue-in-cheek mail to it to maintain the image of > doing something. Quite hypocritical of comrel's attitude of secrecy to > suddenly announce a ban. It seems to me that secrecy is only adopted > when it suits those who stand to benefit from it. >=20 > Great things coming from Gentoo "leadership" here. What will you do when > mgorny starts targeting developers and pitching tantrums over them, too? > Are we going to stratify developership further, too? It seems rather > clear to me that a few individuals see themselves as the owners of this > distro and bend it to suit their whims, using bureacracy to obscure > their actions and motivations, segment the community, and block those > less experienced. This is precisely why we have unmotivated developers > and a bevy of unmaintained packages; nobody wants to contribute to a > distro that treats its users (and developers) so poorly. >=20 > A distro should never bend its entire social structure to protect the > feelings of one surly developer (or his/her entourage), but naturally > since every council member is friends with mgorny and comrel is afraid > to take any action against him, they'll make exceptions to established > procedures and ignore any complaints about the way he treats others. >=20 > Software cannot fix wetware. Plenty of developers get to deal with > mgorny's aggressive and insulting tone, yet nothing happens. Gee... I > wonder why. Maybe because the upper parts of Gentoo are riddled with > cronyism. >=20 > "Rules for thee, not for me." >=20 > It's clear to anyone with eyeballs that there is preferential treatment > and inconsistent enforcement of rules in this community, and the people > in a position to fix it, won't, because they in fact benefit from this. >=20 > Unfortunately, GLEP 39 does not have a section on recalling or > impeachment... This whole situation highlights why the Council has no > business sticking its head into non-technical matters. It's clearly not > up to the task. It's no surprise, since technical skill does not > guarantee or even imply social skill. (or vice-versa) >=20 > I'm tired of people beating around the bush and the facile attempts of > tact: why do you give special treatment to certain members of this > community? Would you have done anything different if it were me or some > other developer who was proposing this change? >=20 > It wouldn't have made it to the Council agenda if he didn't write it, > period. Everyone else would've been told to suck it up and deal with it. > And knowing how the Council is, in a few days we'll all get to deal with > the churn of mailing lists to protect one person's ego. Sad. >=20 zlg has made comments about mgorny that he as been asked to verify. As there has been no response to the request for more information, the Trustees are retracting the comment and wish to apologize to mgorny for the inconvenience. --=20 Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) President, Gentoo Foundation --pxdaypcyr35fqr7h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEExFR3cOKGRpGbcMHPZKN76q4ZpOgFAlqAnLMACgkQZKN76q4Z pOi5jhAAxhJmejlLdBAJIYoNpeSL/8XXBF9OwCfPEHzb/LEZ8tnFXwNoKLKUj1rS LzPqS3vzaLMivdh6ltrEogLXTsT6j+nKkVkjRK24vDu53FWhzegfb3s+6Z8WdYRE /cUn9eKmTwJp+P1kN7Mb4suwNhhcbJDmKVfXXNA9GxGnBVcdheZnglyTmSh3r1Jo xgXB6giG05GVRptWJMAGpMdGHkbanTSqzTedcC/U2ePghEvKfIdORQO5cZQbX43C H79DtDug2Il/kkQKFZnjJigVw67K+2wm7PVU5rhAXxWpqOyj30dX8k2Ets9Gml9w jIMEwyaJU5WzuhFblEvj1TVRiYa0HRXwd1Zumaj2erT87Qn30ZcvE6Jl8235GKSg 3JXNgQLu/PjXHrpjl3YSMjoyb672IE9HxvNqTy33XO5rlbzeH9wEAHR95rWRvSUS 0xzHyTp71vub9YkONA9CYYdNbzePTT5DSXIDdbhGGkg7PfjFbSQmbzac+02JwJUM kC8p6XjpciOlo5yNEHhAjFJl1VWFKXZqGRvY8YC8xwFSzX/YzcRk2QE83724GAZx gMwKhTywfuAunlLkB9/iMaJzS0nZ9Rd8PG3dWCcN9aV0Y7DUWaOt1FidSNNokcRt swUUPdwkAg46eZFx2LJfK+lM9EwQJvm0dHtbKhMpwBhmKvNo4zk= =bHgd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pxdaypcyr35fqr7h--