* [gentoo-dev] Package up for grabs: skencil @ 2016-09-16 12:31 Hanno Böck 2016-09-16 12:58 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Hanno Böck @ 2016-09-16 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev media-gfx/skencil is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was once popular before inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't seen any upstream activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it still seems to work. I haven't used it for many years myself. There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be reassigned to maintainer-needed) -- Hanno Böck https://hboeck.de/ mail/jabber: hanno@hboeck.de GPG: FE73757FA60E4E21B937579FA5880072BBB51E42 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-16 12:31 [gentoo-dev] Package up for grabs: skencil Hanno Böck @ 2016-09-16 12:58 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand 2016-09-16 21:54 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Kristian Fiskerstrand @ 2016-09-16 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 801 bytes --] On 09/16/2016 02:31 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: > media-gfx/skencil > is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was once popular before > inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't seen any upstream > activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it still seems to work. > > I haven't used it for many years myself. > > There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. > > Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be reassigned to > maintainer-needed) Also sounds like a candidate for treecleaning / moving to an overlay and not keeping non-upstream maintained things in tree if nobody want to take the maintainer burden of it. -- Kristian Fiskerstrand OpenPGP certificate reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3 [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 455 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-16 12:58 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand @ 2016-09-16 21:54 ` Duncan 2016-09-20 16:00 ` Michael Mol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Duncan @ 2016-09-16 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev Kristian Fiskerstrand posted on Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:58:22 +0200 as excerpted: > On 09/16/2016 02:31 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: >> media-gfx/skencil is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was once >> popular before inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't seen >> any upstream activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it still seems >> to work. >> >> I haven't used it for many years myself. >> >> There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. >> >> Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be reassigned to >> maintainer-needed) > > Also sounds like a candidate for treecleaning / moving to an overlay and > not keeping non-upstream maintained things in tree if nobody want to > take the maintainer burden of it. Why treeclean it, if it still works and can still be built against in- tree python? Sometimes mature packages don't get further maintenance because they "just work" as they are, and don't _need_ to eventually be bloated to include email and browsing functionality or whatever. Of course if it requires old python and eventually the last supported in- tree python is being removed, and nobody steps up to update it then, /then/ it should be removed from the tree as it'll be broken /then/, but that's not the case now, as Hanno explicitly said it still seems to work. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-16 21:54 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan @ 2016-09-20 16:00 ` Michael Mol 2016-09-20 16:45 ` Rich Freeman 2016-09-21 2:06 ` Alec Warner 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Michael Mol @ 2016-09-20 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2364 bytes --] On Friday, September 16, 2016 09:54:42 PM Duncan wrote: > Kristian Fiskerstrand posted on Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:58:22 +0200 as > > excerpted: > > On 09/16/2016 02:31 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: > >> media-gfx/skencil is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was once > >> popular before inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't seen > >> any upstream activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it still seems > >> to work. > >> > >> I haven't used it for many years myself. > >> > >> There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. > >> > >> Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be reassigned to > >> maintainer-needed) > > > > Also sounds like a candidate for treecleaning / moving to an overlay and > > not keeping non-upstream maintained things in tree if nobody want to > > take the maintainer burden of it. > > Why treeclean it, if it still works and can still be built against in- > tree python? > > Sometimes mature packages don't get further maintenance because they > "just work" as they are, and don't _need_ to eventually be bloated to > include email and browsing functionality or whatever. > > Of course if it requires old python and eventually the last supported in- > tree python is being removed, and nobody steps up to update it then, > /then/ it should be removed from the tree as it'll be broken /then/, but > that's not the case now, as Hanno explicitly said it still seems to work. It needs a maintainer. Are you offering? Packages without maintainers anywhere along the line (either local or upstream) risk having security vulnerabilities go unfixed (or even unacknowledged) simply from having nobody who actually cares about the package. Very little "just works", even if it appears to, after a decade or two of little to no modifications or maintenance, if only because hidden assumptions the software makes about its environment cease to hold true. So long as it continues to "just work", the work involved in being a proxy maintainer should be next to nil. If it doesn't continue to just work, then at least you have a better idea about what's going on...you might even find effective ways to deal with the problem, either by fixing the package yourself or providing backpressure on the environment changes that have broken (or threaten to break) it. -- :wq [-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 473 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-20 16:00 ` Michael Mol @ 2016-09-20 16:45 ` Rich Freeman 2016-09-21 5:40 ` Kent Fredric 2016-09-21 2:06 ` Alec Warner 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Rich Freeman @ 2016-09-20 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote: > On Friday, September 16, 2016 09:54:42 PM Duncan wrote: >> >> Why treeclean it, if it still works and can still be built against in- >> tree python? >> >> Sometimes mature packages don't get further maintenance because they >> "just work" as they are, and don't _need_ to eventually be bloated to >> include email and browsing functionality or whatever. >> >> Of course if it requires old python and eventually the last supported in- >> tree python is being removed, and nobody steps up to update it then, >> /then/ it should be removed from the tree as it'll be broken /then/, but >> that's not the case now, as Hanno explicitly said it still seems to work. > > It needs a maintainer. Are you offering? > > Packages without maintainers anywhere along the line (either local or > upstream) risk having security vulnerabilities go unfixed (or even > unacknowledged) simply from having nobody who actually cares about the > package. Very little "just works", even if it appears to, after a decade or > two of little to no modifications or maintenance, if only because hidden > assumptions the software makes about its environment cease to hold true. This is a general statement that could apply to any package, but in general it is not a policy that packages must be treecleaned simply because they're unmaintained. I'm all for removing packages as soon as they become a burden but not before. > So long as it continues to "just work", the work involved in being a proxy > maintainer should be next to nil. This is silly. It just encourages people to put their name down and not touch the package simply so that it doesn't get treecleaned. Heck, I've done this, maintaining one package that I don't think I've made a single commit to since I rescued it from treecleaning. If it ever becomes a burden on somebody else I'll happily remove it. It just seems silly, and it might actually reduce the incentive for somebody else to step up and actually maintain it because it doesn't go on list of maintainer-needed packages. In this way the rush to treeclean stuff that works actually results in stuff that is LESS maintained but still in the tree. -- Rich ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-20 16:45 ` Rich Freeman @ 2016-09-21 5:40 ` Kent Fredric 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Kent Fredric @ 2016-09-21 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1223 bytes --] On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 12:45:06 -0400 Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote: > It > just seems silly, and it might actually reduce the incentive for > somebody else to step up and actually maintain it because it doesn't > go on list of maintainer-needed packages. In this way the rush to > treeclean stuff that works actually results in stuff that is LESS > maintained but still in the tree. So in that regard, any thoughts on a compromise? I figured something like <maintainer type="person">...</maintainer> <maintainer type="project"> <email>openseason@gentoo.org</email> <name>Open Season For Maintainence</name> </maintainer> Where its like "maintainer needed" except with a defacto maintainer. That is, it shares the property of maintainer needed that anybody at all can maintain it informally "just to keep it working". The idea being to communicate "hey, I'm still using this, and will work on it when I have time, but I don't want to stand in the way of somebody else making it be more useful, just do whatever with it and if I really don't like that, I'll remove openseason" But of course, I do agree that "maintainer needed" should not imply "free to clean". [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 801 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-20 16:00 ` Michael Mol 2016-09-20 16:45 ` Rich Freeman @ 2016-09-21 2:06 ` Alec Warner 2016-09-21 3:13 ` Duncan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Alec Warner @ 2016-09-21 2:06 UTC (permalink / raw To: Gentoo Dev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2621 bytes --] On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote: > On Friday, September 16, 2016 09:54:42 PM Duncan wrote: > > Kristian Fiskerstrand posted on Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:58:22 +0200 as > > > > excerpted: > > > On 09/16/2016 02:31 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: > > >> media-gfx/skencil is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was > once > > >> popular before inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't seen > > >> any upstream activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it still seems > > >> to work. > > >> > > >> I haven't used it for many years myself. > > >> > > >> There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. > > >> > > >> Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be reassigned to > > >> maintainer-needed) > > > > > > Also sounds like a candidate for treecleaning / moving to an overlay > and > > > not keeping non-upstream maintained things in tree if nobody want to > > > take the maintainer burden of it. > > > > Why treeclean it, if it still works and can still be built against in- > > tree python? > > > > Sometimes mature packages don't get further maintenance because they > > "just work" as they are, and don't _need_ to eventually be bloated to > > include email and browsing functionality or whatever. > > > > Of course if it requires old python and eventually the last supported in- > > tree python is being removed, and nobody steps up to update it then, > > /then/ it should be removed from the tree as it'll be broken /then/, but > > that's not the case now, as Hanno explicitly said it still seems to work. > > It needs a maintainer. Are you offering? > > Packages without maintainers anywhere along the line (either local or > upstream) risk having security vulnerabilities go unfixed (or even > unacknowledged) simply from having nobody who actually cares about the > package. Very little "just works", even if it appears to, after a decade or > two of little to no modifications or maintenance, if only because hidden > assumptions the software makes about its environment cease to hold true. > > The current policy is to not remove stuff unless it is actually broken. -A > So long as it continues to "just work", the work involved in being a proxy > maintainer should be next to nil. If it doesn't continue to just work, > then at > least you have a better idea about what's going on...you might even find > effective ways to deal with the problem, either by fixing the package > yourself > or providing backpressure on the environment changes that have broken (or > threaten to break) it. > > -- > :wq [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3500 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [gentoo-dev] Re: Package up for grabs: skencil 2016-09-21 2:06 ` Alec Warner @ 2016-09-21 3:13 ` Duncan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Duncan @ 2016-09-21 3:13 UTC (permalink / raw To: gentoo-dev Alec Warner posted on Tue, 20 Sep 2016 19:06:11 -0700 as excerpted: > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Friday, September 16, 2016 09:54:42 PM Duncan wrote: >> > Kristian Fiskerstrand posted on Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:58:22 +0200 as >> > >> > excerpted: >> > > On 09/16/2016 02:31 PM, Hanno Böck wrote: >> > >> media-gfx/skencil is a python-written vector graphics tool. It was >> once >> > >> popular before inkscape became the de-facto-standard. It hasn't >> > >> seen any upstream activity for a decade(!), but surprisingly it >> > >> still seems to work. >> > >> >> > >> I haven't used it for many years myself. >> > >> >> > >> There are 4 open bugs in bugzilla. >> > >> >> > >> Anyone interested in taking it? (else the usual: will be >> > >> reassigned to maintainer-needed) >> > > >> > > Also sounds like a candidate for treecleaning / moving to an >> > > overlay >> and >> > > not keeping non-upstream maintained things in tree if nobody want >> > > to take the maintainer burden of it. >> > >> > Why treeclean it, if it still works and can still be built against >> > in- tree python? >> > >> > Sometimes mature packages don't get further maintenance because they >> > "just work" as they are, and don't _need_ to eventually be bloated to >> > include email and browsing functionality or whatever. >> > >> > Of course if it requires old python and eventually the last supported >> > in- >> > tree python is being removed, and nobody steps up to update it then, >> > /then/ it should be removed from the tree as it'll be broken /then/, >> > but that's not the case now, as Hanno explicitly said it still seems >> > to work. >> >> It needs a maintainer. Are you offering? >> >> Packages without maintainers anywhere along the line (either local or >> upstream) risk having security vulnerabilities go unfixed (or even >> unacknowledged) simply from having nobody who actually cares about the >> package. Very little "just works", even if it appears to, after a >> decade or two of little to no modifications or maintenance, if only >> because hidden assumptions the software makes about its environment >> cease to hold true. >> >> > The current policy is to not remove stuff unless it is actually broken. Yes. Switch it to maintainer-needed and put an ewarn to that effect if desired, but if it still works and isn't bothering anyone, policy /has/ been to leave it in the tree. This is what I was getting at. Why is it being removed, against policy, if it still works? (Or did the policy change at some point and I just missed it, but apparently not, given Rich0's and Antarus' replies.) I don't use the package myself and have no personal interest in it. I simply wondered what was going on with removal of an apparently working package that doesn't seem to be causing anyone problems, in contravention of what I understood to be gentoo tree-cleaning policy, thus the question. Plus, /someone/ might use it, and (unless it's proprietary, I don't/can't- legally use those as I can't agree to the EULAs, etc) for all I know something might change and I might find myself being that /someone/ that would have used it, had I spoke up back when an unbroken package was being removed for no good reason, except I didn't and it was removed, and thus I never knew I /could/ have used it as it was gone by the time I found I needed something with that functionality. Meanwhile, if there's a security issue, there's a security project to take care of that, regardless of whether there's a maintainer or not. And if there's no maintainer and there's a security issue, then the package _is_ broken and can be masked and tree-cleaned then. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-09-21 5:40 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2016-09-16 12:31 [gentoo-dev] Package up for grabs: skencil Hanno Böck 2016-09-16 12:58 ` Kristian Fiskerstrand 2016-09-16 21:54 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan 2016-09-20 16:00 ` Michael Mol 2016-09-20 16:45 ` Rich Freeman 2016-09-21 5:40 ` Kent Fredric 2016-09-21 2:06 ` Alec Warner 2016-09-21 3:13 ` Duncan
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