* Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: openrc using modprobe directly to load kernel modules
2016-08-17 16:54 [gentoo-dev] rfc: openrc using modprobe directly to load kernel modules William Hubbs
@ 2016-08-17 21:39 ` james
2016-08-18 6:23 ` Daniel Campbell
1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: james @ 2016-08-17 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On 08/17/2016 12:54 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm starting this thread because of the bug I'm citing below [1].
>
> The issue is that some systems do not use kernel modules, and do not
> have kmod installed at all. Since we run modprobe unconditionally in a
> few places in OpenRC, we always generate "modprobe: command not found"
> errors on systems which are set up like this.
>
> If you read the bug, the proposed fixes have been a bit controversial in
> the past. Since we have the "want" dependency now, I would like to
> propose a different fix.
>
> 1. all of the current openrc services that use modprobe should have
> "want modules" in their dependencies.
> 2. After this is done, these services should still attempt to load the
> modules if necessary, but they should complain to the user about it and
> recommend either building these modules in or using /etc/conf.d/modules
> to configure them so they are loaded by the modules service.
> 3. Then, at some point in the future, OpenRC could remove the modprobe
> commands.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> William
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342313
>
As a gentoo user, developing a gentoo framework for rapid and frequent
(and yes unattended installs) on heterogeneous gentoo clusters, I think
Comment 8 says it all, repeat here for convenience::
Comment 8 <partial>
"There are people for which having module-init-tools is just a waste of
space/time/build; we force it already enough with the profile, you don't
want to test for it everywhere, you don't want to hide output, tell me
what you want, so I can make it, but I don't want module-init-tools
forced in on LXC/xen/monolithic installs."
+1,
I rarely use loadable kernel modules, for my cluster builds. In fact I
migrating to a large variety of complete stage-4 images for gentoo
clusters, that are very use specific, highly tuned and minimized,
including openrc, the base profile and old codes necessary for the work
at hand, for the target hardware node.
hth,
James
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: openrc using modprobe directly to load kernel modules
2016-08-17 16:54 [gentoo-dev] rfc: openrc using modprobe directly to load kernel modules William Hubbs
2016-08-17 21:39 ` james
@ 2016-08-18 6:23 ` Daniel Campbell
2016-08-18 8:39 ` Consus
2016-08-18 18:56 ` William Hubbs
1 sibling, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Campbell @ 2016-08-18 6:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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On 08/17/2016 09:54 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm starting this thread because of the bug I'm citing below [1].
>
> The issue is that some systems do not use kernel modules, and do not
> have kmod installed at all. Since we run modprobe unconditionally in a
> few places in OpenRC, we always generate "modprobe: command not found"
> errors on systems which are set up like this.
>
> If you read the bug, the proposed fixes have been a bit controversial in
> the past. Since we have the "want" dependency now, I would like to
> propose a different fix.
>
> 1. all of the current openrc services that use modprobe should have
> "want modules" in their dependencies.
> 2. After this is done, these services should still attempt to load the
> modules if necessary, but they should complain to the user about it and
> recommend either building these modules in or using /etc/conf.d/modules
> to configure them so they are loaded by the modules service.
> 3. Then, at some point in the future, OpenRC could remove the modprobe
> commands.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> William
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342313
>
Is there a reliable way to test for kernel functionality _before_
calling modprobe? I think if a service needs certain kernel
functionality then it should complain -- loudly, if needed -- so the
admin knows what to do, be it building the feature into the kernel or
facilitating a module. But I don't think modules should be required. I
generally don't enable things with M unless some technical situation
requires it. The only real module I have is the nvidia-drivers module
which takes care of itself. Everything else is built into my kernels.
lsmod and modprobe can handle modules -- what can be used to target
kernels that have functionality built-in? Not every system will have
/proc/config.gz support (though honestly I don't know why you wouldn't
want that).
Hiding error or warning messages seems irresponsible to me and could
lead to confusion. So I guess I'm in favor overall, but don't want to
see lightweight installs lose anything or become forced to install
things as modules, as it complicates the kernel configuring process
needlessly.
--
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread