From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B391C13877A for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:11:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9981DE09F0; Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:11:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from xavier.telenet-ops.be (xavier.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.52]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED63E09DD for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gentoo.org ([84.197.67.29]) by xavier.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id dyBf1o00T0dt3XY01yBfXW; Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:11:39 +0200 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:11:35 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps Message-ID: <20140813001135.40dbf915@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: References: <53CD6BED.10603@gentoo.org> <53CD8BBA.2010605@gentoo.org> <20140723013624.5f289194@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/3uJ9IShzWdTxp/xi5ZLB8M_"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: eae0e712-9f60-459b-9e53-6c65fa905fcd X-Archives-Hash: 54f272fa09b0b1e69b907a4b887cd43b --Sig_/3uJ9IShzWdTxp/xi5ZLB8M_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:25:23 +0000 (UTC) Martin Vaeth wrote: > Tom Wijsman wrote: > > Michael Palimaka wrote: > > > >> What a great way to kill the distro. > >> > >> I can already heat my house with the number of unnecessary rebuilds > > > > Do you upgrade @world every hour and thus have it cause excessive > > heat? > > > > If I upgrade every X weeks they become much more cool and > > necessary... >=20 > One of the main advantages of gentoo is the flowing upgrade, > especially since this can only be very poorly emulated by > a binary distro. >=20 > If you really suggest that the user waits one month and > then recompiles the whole installation, you give up > this advantage of gentoo: The user is not up-to-date > for a long time, and moreover, then needs practically > a full reinstall; both are things which he wants to avoid > and why perhaps he has chosen gentoo in the first place. >=20 > At least, for me it is the case: if I have to reinstall > all packages every months - and even have delay in security > updates for a month - I will certainly switch the > distribution. I guess many others think similarly. Simple equation: The more frequent the user updates, the more frequent the user will experience the minor inconveniences by upstream and distribution maintainers. Otherwise we'd be using a 9999-only system. Dynamic deps, as well as rev bumps, alter this equation; the problem with that is that such alterations don't come free and without flaws, which is essentially where you get to reconsider how you alter it. In a similar way the user has to reconsider whether updating less is acceptable compared to compiling an occasional inconvenience. Choosing between a stable and non-stable tree is a big gap of difference in convenience, choosing how often you update is fine tuning. To get the idea: "Upstream released W.X.Y.Z+1; it was only yesterday I've compiled W.X.Y.Z, turns out the difference is not so important." Agreed that this can very well be an important security update; but if you go back to the equation, that still is a minor inconvenience. PS: Not suggesting 1 month; but rather that updating not enough, or too much, can make one experience serious effects that such choices imply. --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_/3uJ9IShzWdTxp/xi5ZLB8M_ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT6pEYAAoJEPWZc8roOL/Q20sH/3X3sZItCXFc/BNMWcCoAJxW P42A90SXUF1C1LrQ2XLtk1fKMdxlaswNjCf7LseYoVq2KruRjLaQH7BDDsWm86// FG0XkoH26ZMQjljgWPMaYpidL56zkIbj5okX86wiV6BuEIpC457ojuX9CCOA7G60 8UB9Gvr+CfIbQ1rtAS4UK4h62gi/XIZ2HDCCYwSsNX7KhdDYsx2C03f2Qy8MzwWc XZWvcoMGvDdaTrChOlgNjPlh5gJnK86kgrulcDUCKfmD40gvE5sC60moz5aJzsys +Sug+eEFVqHw0GZaJ++jDrrbzHDhgh8NW1PTvT8Hn9MF4yVr2LHJFomWkPu5++Y= =6gGZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/3uJ9IShzWdTxp/xi5ZLB8M_--