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From: Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:11:35 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140813001135.40dbf915@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <slrnlt7eih.9i1.martin@epidot.math.uni-rostock.de>

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On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:25:23 +0000 (UTC)
Martin Vaeth <martin@mvath.de> wrote:

> Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Michael Palimaka <kensington@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> >> What a great way to kill the distro.
> >>
> >> I can already heat my house with the number of unnecessary rebuilds
> >
> > Do you upgrade @world every hour and thus have it cause excessive
> > heat?
> >
> > If I upgrade every X weeks they become much more cool and
> > necessary...
> 
> One of the main advantages of gentoo is the flowing upgrade,
> especially since this can only be very poorly emulated by
> a binary distro.
> 
> If you really suggest that the user waits one month and
> then recompiles the whole installation, you give up
> this advantage of gentoo: The user is not up-to-date
> for a long time, and moreover, then needs practically
> a full reinstall; both are things which he wants to avoid
> and why perhaps he has chosen gentoo in the first place.
> 
> At least, for me it is the case: if I have to reinstall
> all packages every months - and even have delay in security
> updates for a month - I will certainly switch the
> distribution. I guess many others think similarly.

Simple equation: The more frequent the user updates, the more frequent
the user will experience the minor inconveniences by upstream and
distribution maintainers. Otherwise we'd be using a 9999-only system.

Dynamic deps, as well as rev bumps, alter this equation; the problem
with that is that such alterations don't come free and without flaws,
which is essentially where you get to reconsider how you alter it.

In a similar way the user has to reconsider whether updating less is
acceptable compared to compiling an occasional inconvenience. Choosing
between a stable and non-stable tree is a big gap of difference in
convenience, choosing how often you update is fine tuning.

To get the idea: "Upstream released W.X.Y.Z+1; it was only yesterday
I've compiled W.X.Y.Z, turns out the difference is not so important."
Agreed that this can very well be an important security update; but
if you go back to the equation, that still is a minor inconvenience.

PS: Not suggesting 1 month; but rather that updating not enough, or too
much, can make one experience serious effects that such choices imply.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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  reply	other threads:[~2014-08-12 22:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 276+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-07-21 19:37 [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps hasufell
2014-07-21 19:42 ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 19:50   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 20:06     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 20:13       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-21 20:12         ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 20:17       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 20:28   ` hasufell
2014-07-21 20:41     ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-22 22:05       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-08-27 16:18         ` Jan Matejka
2014-07-21 20:49     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:01     ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:06       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:13         ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:16           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 22:13       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22 21:11   ` Michał Górny
2014-07-22 22:22     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23 13:36     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 21:56   ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-25  8:36     ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-26 12:00     ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:33       ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-21 19:53 ` [gentoo-dev] " Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-21 19:55   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:06     ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-21 21:15       ` Jeroen Roovers
2014-07-21 21:21         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-21 21:25           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:30             ` Maxim Kammerer
2014-07-26 12:52               ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:54           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:00             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:57               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:04                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22  7:39       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22  7:52         ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-22  9:50         ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 13:53       ` [gentoo-dev] " Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-22 18:40         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 18:50           ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-23  4:11             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 18:51           ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 19:10             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 19:26               ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 20:06                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 20:40                   ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-22 20:51                     ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-23 13:15                       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-26 11:20                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-23  1:15                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-25  8:38                     ` Duncan
2014-07-26 11:31                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22 22:44         ` [gentoo-dev] " Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  0:01           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-24 22:42             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 13:00               ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:07                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 14:44           ` [gentoo-dev] " Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 14:59             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 15:09             ` hasufell
2014-07-25 15:15               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:23                 ` hasufell
2014-07-25 15:26                   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:44                     ` hasufell
2014-07-26  7:14                       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-26 12:41               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:49                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:04                   ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:09                     ` hasufell
2014-07-26 15:12                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 11:42                   ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-27 11:50                     ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:01                       ` [gentoo-dev] Behaving productively on the list Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-27 12:04                         ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:07                           ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-27 12:26                             ` hasufell
2014-07-27 12:06                       ` [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps Samuli Suominen
2014-07-27 12:31                         ` hasufell
2014-07-27 13:11                           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 11:54                     ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 11:57                       ` hasufell
2014-07-27 13:20                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 13:47                     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-28  6:35                       ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-30  4:45                     ` Alexander Tsoy
2014-07-30  5:36                       ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-30  7:22                         ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-30  7:38                         ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-30 11:18                           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-30 11:23                             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-30 12:38                             ` Samuli Suominen
2014-08-12 21:32                               ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 12:56                 ` Ulrich Mueller
2014-08-01 21:38                   ` [gentoo-dev] PMS (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Martin Vaeth
2014-08-02  5:19                     ` [gentoo-dev] PMS Ulrich Mueller
2014-08-02  9:30                       ` [gentoo-dev] PMS Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:08           ` [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-23 13:33       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25  1:45         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-25 15:01           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-25 15:53             ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-25 18:26             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 13:29             ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:20           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-25  8:53         ` [gentoo-dev] " Pacho Ramos
2014-07-26 13:36           ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:32         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 12:44           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 13:16             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:20               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:46                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:53                   ` hasufell
2014-07-26 14:54                   ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:11                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:22                       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:40                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:51                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28 14:30                         ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 14:43                           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28 15:38                             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 19:31                               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-24 22:06       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-25  8:51         ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-25 17:15         ` Andreas K. Huettel
2014-07-25 17:36           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-25 17:39             ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-26 17:47             ` Taahir Ahmed
2014-07-26 18:21               ` Taahir Ahmed
2014-07-26 13:41         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 13:46           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:01             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:09               ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:14                 ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-21 20:56   ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-21 21:13     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-21 21:22       ` Michał Górny
2014-07-21 22:52       ` William Hubbs
2014-07-22  0:36         ` hasufell
2014-07-22  9:42           ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 19:42             ` William Hubbs
2014-07-22  1:05         ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2014-07-22  5:10           ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:06             ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26  4:36               ` Patrick Lauer
2014-07-26 13:55                 ` [gentoo-dev] binpkg (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 19:18                 ` [gentoo-dev] don't rely on dynamic deps Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22 22:52         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-22  1:34     ` Alexandre Rostovtsev
2014-07-22 23:13       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  2:05         ` Alexandre Rostovtsev
2014-07-26 14:02           ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:29             ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:18               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-25  7:34       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-22 22:29   ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-21 21:52 ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22  7:25   ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-22 18:44     ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-22 18:50       ` Alexander Berntsen
2014-07-22 23:28         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  8:53       ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-26 14:12       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 22:43         ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27  7:16           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 10:16             ` [gentoo-dev] Avoiding rebuilds (was: don't rely on dynamic deps) Ulrich Mueller
2014-07-27 12:19               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 13:45               ` [gentoo-dev] Avoiding rebuilds hasufell
2014-07-28  5:49                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 15:15                   ` Brian Dolbec
2014-08-01  9:35                   ` Steven J. Long
2014-08-01 20:49                     ` Martin Vaeth
2014-08-02 13:19                       ` Steven J. Long
2014-08-03 15:14                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 10:43             ` [gentoo-dev] Re: don't rely on dynamic deps Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 12:04               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:46                 ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:57                   ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-28 18:27                 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 18:35                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-22 19:05     ` [gentoo-dev] " Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:32       ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23  1:21       ` hasufell
2014-07-23 13:34       ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 19:26     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-22 23:21     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 12:19       ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-22  8:21   ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-22  8:32     ` Kristian Fiskerstrand
2014-07-22  9:25       ` Pacho Ramos
2014-07-22 17:03         ` Sven Vermeulen
2014-07-22 17:11           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-22 17:32             ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22  8:33     ` Samuli Suominen
2014-07-22 23:36     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-23 12:14       ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-25 21:59         ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 17:12           ` Michael Palimaka
2014-07-26 19:21             ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 19:30               ` Michael Palimaka
2014-08-12 21:49                 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26 14:25       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-08-12 22:11         ` Tom Wijsman [this message]
2014-07-22 11:58   ` [gentoo-dev] " hasufell
2014-07-26 14:09   ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:22     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:33       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:36         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 14:40           ` hasufell
2014-07-27  7:46             ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 14:32     ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:27       ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:29         ` hasufell
2014-07-26 16:10           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 15:35         ` Michał Górny
2014-07-26 15:59           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 16:02             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:36               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 16:45                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 15:39         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:05           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 16:14             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 16:28               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-26 16:34                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-26 18:36               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-26 18:42                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 16:27                   ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 14:05   ` [gentoo-dev] " "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 14:42     ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 14:56       ` "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
2014-07-27 14:59         ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 15:09           ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 15:16             ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 17:02               ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 17:11                 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 17:16                   ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 17:24                     ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-28  6:59         ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-28  8:26           ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28  9:28             ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-28 13:12               ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 13:29                 ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-28 18:50                   ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-28 18:57                     ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-29  7:33                       ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-29  9:12                         ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-29 10:20                         ` Martin Vaeth
2014-07-29 10:47                         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 15:44       ` [gentoo-dev] " Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 15:52         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 16:05           ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-28  4:43             ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 20:24       ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-27 20:51         ` Peter Stuge
2014-07-27 20:56           ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 21:27             ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 21:34               ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:50                 ` Kent Fredric
2014-07-27 21:54                   ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:14           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-27 21:08         ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:17           ` Michał Górny
2014-07-27 21:26             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-27 21:33               ` Ciaran McCreesh
2014-07-27 21:39                 ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-28  5:21                   ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 22:06                 ` [gentoo-dev] " Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2014-07-28 16:29           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2014-07-28 16:44             ` Rich Freeman
2014-07-28  5:06         ` [gentoo-dev] " Martin Vaeth
2014-07-27 14:42     ` [gentoo-dev] " Michał Górny
2014-07-22 21:47 ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-25  5:44   ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2014-07-25 22:09     ` Tom Wijsman
2014-07-26  5:21       ` Duncan

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