[gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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# Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@gentoo.org> (29 Jun 2014)
# Mask perl-5.12 and related package versions prior to removal
=dev-lang/perl-5.12*
=perl-core/Module-CoreList-2.800.0
=virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.56
=virtual/perl-Module-CoreList-2.800.0
virtual/perl-Switch

-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer (council, kde)
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Tony Vroon]

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On 29/06/14 16:49, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> virtual/perl-Switch

No, stop that right now.
Bug #511874 needs to be actually fixed:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511874

The explanation was closed as a duplicate, which it isn't:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=496278

You are breaking working installs here and I will not stand for it.

Regards,
Tony V.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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Am Montag, 30. Juni 2014, 10:21:17 schrieb Tony Vroon:
> On 29/06/14 16:49, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > virtual/perl-Switch
> 
> No, stop that right now.
> Bug #511874 needs to be actually fixed:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=511874
> 
> The explanation was closed as a duplicate, which it isn't:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=496278
> 
> You are breaking working installs here and I will not stand for it.

* What am I breaking?
  All in-tree revdeps have been fixed to depend on perl-core/Switch

* What is the point of keeping a virtual with only one provider?

* As Fabian pointed out, perl-core/Switch-2.160.0 should still go stable.
  Fine with me (but I can't read your minds about future stabilizations, and 
  the virtual only had ~arch reverse deps).

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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On 30/06/14 04:46 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

> [snip!] * As Fabian pointed out, perl-core/Switch-2.160.0 should
> still go stable. Fine with me (but I can't read your minds about
> future stabilizations, and the virtual only had ~arch reverse
> deps).
> 

There shouldn't be any need to read minds, here -- if the previous
stable perl had this capability, then the new stable perl should too
(whether that be via internal or external module package).  If it
doesn't, then the upgraded-new-stable-perl isn't a valid replacement
for the stable version it previously replaced.  Remember that there
could be who knows what scripts on end-user systems that need this
functionality, and if it's suddenly not available because the only
thing that provides it is ~arch, then they are not left in a happy state..

That's the case here, perl-core/Switch is still ~arch, therefore the
current stable provider of Switch is still perl-5.12.  Once the
keywording is resolved though then 5.12 (and the virtual) would no
longer be needed.

It would be nice if something like a pkgmove be done on the virtual,
though, upon its elimintation; anyone that installed the virtual to
obtain perl Switch shouldn't have to unmerge and specifically emerge
perl-core/Switch.  I'm not sure if pkgmove itself supports this, though..


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Re: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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perl-core/Switch is now stabilized on "amd64 ppc x86", so this should be 
fixed.

> On 30/06/14 04:46 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > [snip!] * As Fabian pointed out, perl-core/Switch-2.160.0 should
> > still go stable. Fine with me (but I can't read your minds about
> > future stabilizations, and the virtual only had ~arch reverse
> > deps).
> 
> There shouldn't be any need to read minds, here -- if the previous
> stable perl had this capability, then the new stable perl should too
> (whether that be via internal or external module package).  If it
> doesn't, then the upgraded-new-stable-perl isn't a valid replacement
> for the stable version it previously replaced. Remember that there
> could be who knows what scripts on end-user systems that need this
> functionality, and if it's suddenly not available because the only
> thing that provides it is ~arch, then they are not left in a happy state..

I'm not fully buying this argument, since it would prevent us ever stabilizing 
a package where an upstream feature is removed. 

(Switch was first released with perl v5.7.3 and removed from v5.13.1. So there 
should have been lots of time to update dependency declarations or pull in the 
external package if needed for non-portage scripts.)

> It would be nice if something like a pkgmove be done on the virtual,
> though, upon its elimintation; anyone that installed the virtual to
> obtain perl Switch shouldn't have to unmerge and specifically emerge
> perl-core/Switch.  I'm not sure if pkgmove itself supports this, though..

I dont think this is what pkgmove does (this would move the "no installed 
files" vdb entry of the virtual to the perl-core name... we would need a 
functionality that only touches the world file alone...)

-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
kde, council

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Re: Re: Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Andreas K. Huettel]

> > It would be nice if something like a pkgmove be done on the virtual,
> > though, upon its elimintation; anyone that installed the virtual to
> > obtain perl Switch shouldn't have to unmerge and specifically emerge
> > perl-core/Switch.  I'm not sure if pkgmove itself supports this, though..
> 
> I dont think this is what pkgmove does (this would move the "no installed
> files" vdb entry of the virtual to the perl-core name... we would need a
> functionality that only touches the world file alone...)

I've added a message about Switch to the package mask, so people should get 
informed now.

# Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@gentoo.org> (29 Jun 2014)
# Mask perl-5.12 and related package versions prior to removal
# If you require the Switch package, emerge perl-core/Switch
=dev-lang/perl-5.12*
=perl-core/Module-CoreList-2.800.0
=virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.56
=virtual/perl-Module-CoreList-2.800.0
virtual/perl-Switch


-- 
Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
kde, council

Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Ian Stakenvicius]

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On 01/07/14 07:57 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> 
> perl-core/Switch is now stabilized on "amd64 ppc x86", so this
> should be fixed.
> 
>> On 30/06/14 04:46 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>>> [snip!] * As Fabian pointed out, perl-core/Switch-2.160.0
>>> should still go stable. Fine with me (but I can't read your
>>> minds about future stabilizations, and the virtual only had
>>> ~arch reverse deps).
>> 
>> There shouldn't be any need to read minds, here -- if the
>> previous stable perl had this capability, then the new stable
>> perl should too (whether that be via internal or external module
>> package).  If it doesn't, then the upgraded-new-stable-perl isn't
>> a valid replacement for the stable version it previously
>> replaced. Remember that there could be who knows what scripts on
>> end-user systems that need this functionality, and if it's
>> suddenly not available because the only thing that provides it is
>> ~arch, then they are not left in a happy state..
> 
> I'm not fully buying this argument, since it would prevent us ever
> stabilizing a package where an upstream feature is removed.
> 

But it's not removed -- it's just packaged separately, if one takes
the entirety of dev-lang/perl + perl-core/* as meaning "perl".  If the
feature was indeed just plain gone and there wasn't a module providing
that functionality, then of course stabilization shouldn't be held up
waiting for someone to write or package it, but if it -has- been
written and packaged already, I personally think it makes sense that
it be added to the stabilization list without the need for a bunch of
people specifically requesting it.

(i realize based on what is stated below, that it wasn't stabilized
for any other perl release after 5.12 and i would guess that is likely
why it wasn't considered for stabilization for 5.16 along with the
rest of the packages in
https://458122.bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=339264 )


> (Switch was first released with perl v5.7.3 and removed from
> v5.13.1. So there should have been lots of time to update
> dependency declarations or pull in the external package if needed
> for non-portage scripts.)

Perhaps if it makes sense to do so, the virtual/perl-*'s should be
adjusted so that they ewarn on pkg_postinst when the older perl
version is no longer being installed, to let them know they should
update their @world??  I expect this could be a templatized message,
even...  For this particular case, having the per-core package
mentioned in the p.mask helps a lot.


>> It would be nice if something like a pkgmove be done on the
>> virtual, though, upon its elimintation; anyone that installed the
>> virtual to obtain perl Switch shouldn't have to unmerge and
>> specifically emerge perl-core/Switch.  I'm not sure if pkgmove
>> itself supports this, though..
> 
> I dont think this is what pkgmove does (this would move the "no
> installed files" vdb entry of the virtual to the perl-core name...
> we would need a functionality that only touches the world file
> alone...)
> 

Probably we would want it to do more than just change @world, for
instance the in-vdb dependency list for all other installed packages
that contain the virtual should be changed to perl-core/Switch.  But
yes I agree 'pkgmove' as it stands would probably make a mess of things.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] last rites: =dev-lang/perl-5.12* and family

[Samuli Suominen]

On 30/06/14 18:16, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> On 30/06/14 04:46 AM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>
> > [snip!] * As Fabian pointed out, perl-core/Switch-2.160.0 should
> > still go stable. Fine with me (but I can't read your minds about
> > future stabilizations, and the virtual only had ~arch reverse
> > deps).
>
>
> There shouldn't be any need to read minds, here -- if the previous
> stable perl had this capability, then the new stable perl should too

that's nonsense, if upstreams remove features, even working ones, it
might not make everyone happy, but they are well within their
rights to do that (like, upower dropping hibernate/suspend support)

and if someone isn't happy about it, they can always fork

- Samuli