From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133991381FA for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 12:53:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9B04E08E2; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 12:53:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from xavier.telenet-ops.be (xavier.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.52]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2106E0850 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2014 12:53:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gentoo.org ([94.226.51.153]) by xavier.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id 9otS1o00f3JKcCE01otSL5; Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:53:26 +0200 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 14:52:34 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: ssuominen@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: UPower upstream (git master) and 0.99 release -> No sys-power/pm-utils support anymore Message-ID: <20140603145234.3db267bd@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <538DBE76.8060300@gentoo.org> References: <5383A0E6.3020700@gentoo.org> <20140531024701.GB3828@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> <5389BA4C.8040106@gentoo.org> <2990845.EWIttsqmb4@andromeda> <538DB0C5.6070206@gentoo.org> <20140603140850.7b69dff6@gentoo.org> <538DBE76.8060300@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/YXl+=7O6TiGzzhTONqtp6it"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 1f666e05-77d9-48e7-ab93-5eed4235b261 X-Archives-Hash: 77d302e5e94867ab9481fe8bdf1c8ab6 --Sig_/YXl+=7O6TiGzzhTONqtp6it Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:24:22 +0300 Samuli Suominen wrote: > On 03/06/14 15:08, Tom Wijsman wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jun 2014 07:35:42 -0400 > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > >> This probably could have used a news item, as the change impacts > >> both stable and ~arch users. > > Are we going to write a news item every time systemd acquires a new > > mandatory relationship with a reverse dependency? >=20 > IMHO, not every singular dependency change (even blocker) needs one. Regardless of that, most acquirements have lead to a news item. > For those failing to read `eix upower` That command doesn't tell anything helpful for this blocker. > or `emerge -C upower` For that you need to already know that you have to unmerge upower; it is also not going to help anything in terms of dependency calculation, except for a small amount of users that might have selected it. > or masking systemd, Masking systemd has the same effect as having udev selected; so, taking this action has zero effect and results in the blocker to still be there. The output has perhaps changed a little, the idea is the same. > or number of other ways the blocker can be solved, There is the problem, new Gentoo users can't solve it; that's why it's all over the place, as you've mentioned below. And some of it contains misinformation, like the gentoo-user thread you have responded to. Why do the users need to keep solving these nasty blockers? You could solve it if you use --tree --unordered-display; go through the dependency chain to check the reverse dependencies, write down what is going on and finally come to the conclusion of it all. But how are new users supposed to know all that? Why is --tree --unordered-display still not a default? In other words, why is the list of packages still flat by default? > the answer is in Gentoo news letter, Hidden somewhere in the middle, assuming users read about the update. > forums, As long as the activity of these topics last. > first hits in Google, Nothing found when I search for things like gentoo systemd blocker. > /topic of #gentoo at Freenode, MLs, pretty much everywhere. Which amounts to only a certain share of the users. > But news item has been planned all along for when UPower 0.99.0 goes > stable, propably > GNOME 3.12 and some 0.99.0 consumers, when there are enough steps to > accumulate as news worthy. Your reply doesn't answer the posed questions; instead, it demonstrates that it costs a lot more human resources the way we do things now. Users have to figure it out the hard way, developers then have to bring out the news the hard way; just like most of the previous times. --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_/YXl+=7O6TiGzzhTONqtp6it Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTjcUTAAoJEPWZc8roOL/Qc4gH/jwnwqvX0kyoF+mvX4gom0SO k/T9dKNsHflYH17pcWHj9yUGEIAQH01HVPGHg0ZvbywduLYB8/63+IB8/BEQ6GCJ wm+ioXuECjR1tzE/6anGxcytdXvOfgAFe1Yu89JlrVYnWREsXWWQhJ0KGf1yV/T7 PH1eljcDAxr5XZgOeb2+XlIMxHY49mdwk7PYnuDtAAfddrIJsfyzZlvb6FhozL4P CnQXDfwrPcga9091/9K26KykVaXOQejRsRNKsM6XSvqeynr9q9SzsPfVQS3X+PF0 sqHkMaB9B7+hK4WZeVWdgZrBAJvMmV2YQ2RXAdMlcbV1K+KXIxbIh7ehSef/heE= =HYAU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/YXl+=7O6TiGzzhTONqtp6it--