From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0711381F3 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 19:53:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 474B5E0B4D; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 19:52:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from juliette.telenet-ops.be (juliette.telenet-ops.be [195.130.137.74]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF14E0AF6 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 19:52:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TOMWIJ-GENTOO ([94.226.55.127]) by juliette.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id B7sp1m0092khLEN067spRy; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 21:52:49 +0200 Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 21:49:04 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gnome Stabilization 3.6 or 3.8 Message-ID: <20130810214904.360a3a4c@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> In-Reply-To: <20130810193458.GB1500@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> References: <20130808185357.4208db83@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <20130808202627.4b474471@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <20130809020303.GA11215@linux1> <1376033807.30224.21.camel@kanae> <5204B6A9.1080309@gentoo.org> <5204E235.7010702@gentoo.org> <20130809151307.77ee9039@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> <20130810193458.GB1500@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.20; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_//gF8BME81DVYVcdF5NPlswq"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 7b894fab-ace9-4880-9c1d-b4fb918f135b X-Archives-Hash: 57611cfac07c5349039329e861488984 --Sig_//gF8BME81DVYVcdF5NPlswq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 10 Aug 2013 20:34:58 +0100 "Steven J. Long" wrote: > Tom Wijsman wrote: > > Let's say that I were to develop a system with some other Gentoo > > devs; that doesn't mean we are able to make everything in the tree > > support that system, making it an usable tool for everything is > > unrealistic >=20 > This isn't just "any tool" though: it's the core init-system. Your > reasoning is on shaky ground during this part of your mail, for that > reason. If we were discussing one app against another, or even one DE > against another, it would be a different matter. >=20 > The core system has to be a usable basis to build "everything" from. I do agree with this except for "shaky"; it is a nice goal to pursue... That still does not make us able to do it or make it a realistic goal. > Even if one end-user choice precludes another. Somehow I don't like > the idea of switching from a systemd-stage3 to openrc, whereas the > inverse seems like a viable option. That's a path people can consider to work on in the future, I guess. > > Making such a design choice isn't a fault. There is no need for > > blame. >=20 > Design choices have consequences in terms of where manpower can go, > as well as in terms of end-user capability and flexibility, > especially when one of the "options" has far-reaching implications > for the rest of the stack, such that it is a question of "my way or > the high way," which seems counter to the idea of choice i hear so > much about. "My way or the high way" is giving good service to just a set of users, because you can't listen and support everyone with limited resources; as a result it causes alternatives to be created, effectively giving choice. This is a natural thing to happen, as everything supporting everything does not sound possible at all; it is therefore unrealistic. > It appears to be akin to the argument that freedom means the freedom > to hurt whoever you want without concern. > > So it's perfectly reasonable for them to be questioned and criticised. Not sure what and whom you mean to refer to by this. --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_//gF8BME81DVYVcdF5NPlswq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSBpkwAAoJEJWyH81tNOV9ZRQIAKuw4zEA8+u6j2IpWjg3LLFB aWjDwRK7OokrqJz49ExspXzS32AoVzy2k6B9oDe5xSPrBbZPIJpNLxBqH9dNs2nv AlnwwWZBgvyfKolgSfMn37asQHhvzuiuROKZC2j1W7d5R0KeLOnyRExnYjwJ0RFK kz64xzEOSwZvCnR7PENY5xo2ooaXQkN9kvIxVGMAl/vsNAQPmNEgJKGgPDz2FTql Dno+WY7U6DzJXYPrL8M9LCusgwTvj1hudShWF3eF3ud2UhM6DegGJCpiQdF9LMI2 s599/1/wWGfzxstVCYa2rGuYk7HDmCXo6PjovW9YLCllbBdXRhmL2SJJwNQvECY= =aXWI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_//gF8BME81DVYVcdF5NPlswq--