Re: [gentoo-dev] Gnome Stabilization 3.6 or 3.8

[William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>]

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On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 05:22:38PM +0300, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> You just removed the upgrade path for users.
> >>
> >
> > Just install systemd.  There really isn't any practical alternative.
> > Gentoo with systemd is as Gentooish a configuration as Gentoo with
> > OpenRC, or Gentoo with libav, or Gentoo with emacs.
> 
> Again, I repeat my-self.
> 
> Please stop writing these statements!
> 
> There was no decision to support Gentoo using any other layout than
> openrc (baselayout).

 Baselayout and OpenRc are two separate things. In baselayout-1 it was
 true that the init scripts were part of Baselayout. However, this is
 not the case now, since OpenRc is separated from Baselayout.

> There is *HUGE* difference between optional components and core components.
 
 The "core" component, that all gentoo systems are required to have, is
 baselayout, not OpenRc.

I've been a dev since 2004, and I have never heard of a
policy that mandates that everything must work with OpenRc in order to
be stable. Yes, OpenRc is the default init scripts in stage 3, but that
in no way implies that everything is mandated to work with it. It just
means we chose that as the default.

> Claiming that Gentoo can use alternate layout is same as alternate
> that freebsd port is stable or that intel icc can be used as compiler.
> It has broad implications, which is far from the actual component
> usage or its own dependencies.
 
What implications are those other than, in this case, providing systemd
units for packages that need them? Since there is an active team of
Gentoo developers that work on systemd, shouldn't they be the ones to
handle those implications?

> If you have the agenda to switch to systemd, and you hide your
> intention in the argument of supporting multiple layouts, please do
> not hide and state so clearly.

As has been stated a thousand times, we are not changing the default
init system to systemd. Gnome (upstream) has decided to require it, so
if you use Gnome you will need to switch over, but that's it. This does
not mean that the default is changing. This also does not fit the
definition of a regression, since 1) we do not mandate that everything
must work with OpenRc and 2) they make it clear upstream that they
require systemd.

> But do not claim that Gentoo with different layout than baselayout is
> still formal Gentoo, and is supported by the Gentoo developers.

baselayout is used on systemd systems, so nothing has changed here, and,
systemd is supported by gentoo developers. It is not the default init
setup, but it is fully supported. Systemd is a full citizen of gentoo.

Regards,

William

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