[gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

For future reference, please use "drive space" rather than "disk
space". This includes in eclasses like check-reqs.
- -- 
Alexander
alexander@plaimi.net
http://plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3qGsACgkQRtClrXBQc7Uo6AEAo0+sAhiZ6nF1XAfB/a0hFnEX
LAZbdKbw5VbnaZJacicA/2liJgoOO1gVaUcavzhpSlJcU8mmJGZGtcyvnxchwHfl
=btcc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Michał Górny]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dnia 2013-07-30, o godz. 13:50:03
Alexander Berntsen <alexander@plaimi.net> napisał(a):

> For future reference, please use "drive space" rather than "disk
> space". This includes in eclasses like check-reqs.

Rationale?

- -- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
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=yRva
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 30/07/13 14:00, Michał Górny wrote:
> Rationale?
I don't have a disk

- -- 
Alexander
alexander@plaimi.net
http://plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3qzIACgkQRtClrXBQc7XHyAEAtTGKRNYHgmMxpmsW3NtQ9nj/
0xjw2MDhW9x9B/Zu/QcA/iWOPZsJFT/7JqkJeLv5qTOHucaYIm63aA6MiPMFjEkg
=4/Tx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Alex Legler]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 764 bytes --]

On 30.07.2013 13:50, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> For future reference,

I don't think you're using that right. You get to make statements "for
future reference" if you actually have authority to tell people what to do.

> please use "drive space" rather than "disk
> space". This includes in eclasses like check-reqs.
> 

'disk space' is a perfectly valid term even if you have fancy solid
state drives these days. It is an established term in technical
documentation that everyone understands even if you don't physically use
a 'disk'.

Wikipedia lists 'disk space', not 'drive space' as do two English-*
dictionaries I checked. Why should we be coining 'drive space'?

-- 
Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Security/Ruby/Infrastructure


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 901 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Alex Legler <a3li@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 30.07.2013 13:50, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
>> For future reference,
>
> I don't think you're using that right. You get to make statements "for
> future reference" if you actually have authority to tell people what to do.

+1. Also, providing some context wouldn't have hurt your case either.

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 30/07/13 14:12, Alex Legler wrote:
> I don't think you're using that right. You get to make statements 
> "for future reference" if you actually have authority to tell
> people what to do.
Relax. There's even a "please" in there.

> 'disk space' is a perfectly valid term even if you have fancy solid
>  state drives these days. It is an established term in technical 
> documentation that everyone understands even if you don't
> physically use a 'disk'.
It's *wrong*. In school we were even taught to avoid it. :-)

> Wikipedia lists 'disk space', not 'drive space' as do two English-*
>  dictionaries I checked. Why should we be coining 'drive space'?
"free space" or "space available" or similar may be better wordings,
though I am used to seeing "drive space".


however, if many people violently oppose such a change, that's fine
then. I would simply prefer a more correct term.
- -- 
Alexander
alexander@plaimi.net
http://plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3rz8ACgkQRtClrXBQc7VMFwD/aE+cGnDYZOxgesjQ3Kv65zO5
a3NIg+P5vd8piaqOg0YA+gN26Rep4FXBpUVwzAShtUArtE/0hjQ+1ofZzAzd3RPR
=X4XV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Douglas Freed]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1737 bytes --]

On Jul 30, 2013 8:19 AM, "Alexander Berntsen" <alexander@plaimi.net> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 30/07/13 14:12, Alex Legler wrote:
> > I don't think you're using that right. You get to make statements
> > "for future reference" if you actually have authority to tell
> > people what to do.
> Relax. There's even a "please" in there.
>
> > 'disk space' is a perfectly valid term even if you have fancy solid
> >  state drives these days. It is an established term in technical
> > documentation that everyone understands even if you don't
> > physically use a 'disk'.
> It's *wrong*. In school we were even taught to avoid it. :-)

How is it wrong?  We've been using disk space for decades (probably since
disks were invented), and as someone who has been using Linux for 5 years,
and Windows for 10 years, the only time I've ever heard "drive space" is in
Windows or from not-so-technically savvy friends and relatives.

>
> > Wikipedia lists 'disk space', not 'drive space' as do two English-*
> >  dictionaries I checked. Why should we be coining 'drive space'?
> "free space" or "space available" or similar may be better wordings,
> though I am used to seeing "drive space".
>
>
> however, if many people violently oppose such a change, that's fine
> then. I would simply prefer a more correct term.
> - --
> Alexander
> alexander@plaimi.net
> http://plaimi.net/~alexander
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
> iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3rz8ACgkQRtClrXBQc7VMFwD/aE+cGnDYZOxgesjQ3Kv65zO5
> a3NIg+P5vd8piaqOg0YA+gN26Rep4FXBpUVwzAShtUArtE/0hjQ+1ofZzAzd3RPR
> =X4XV
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

-Doug

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2449 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2013, Alexander Berntsen wrote:

> On 30/07/13 14:12, Alex Legler wrote:
>> 'disk space' is a perfectly valid term even if you have fancy solid
>> state drives these days. It is an established term in technical
>> documentation that everyone understands even if you don't
>> physically use a 'disk'.

+1

> It's *wrong*. In school we were even taught to avoid it. :-)

It can hardly be more wrong than "drive". A solid state device doesn't
contain any mechanical components like motors that would drive it.

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Michael Weber]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 07/30/2013 01:50 PM, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> For future reference, please use "drive space" rather than "disk 
> space". This includes in eclasses like check-reqs.

Non-technical stuff -> wrong list.
Stop that now.

- -- 
Michael Weber
Gentoo Developer
web: https://xmw.de/
mailto: Michael Weber <xmw@gentoo.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3uV8ACgkQknrdDGLu8JD3EQD+K17X2evvpH6/TaDSCn8XNKsd
y/n3aBQxMfB8TnxFSfIA/ipF19uBPIn2zQ15L0n0yu+ATXrk/jWWdOEwiOxSTzin
=T4YC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Alexander Berntsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 30/07/13 14:55, Douglas Freed wrote:
>> How is it wrong?
I don't have a disk so informing me that I don't have enough disk space
does not make any sense..

I think my suggestion and its justification has been made clear, so I
will not proceed to feed the bikeshed monster.


(Furthermore, because I am a non-developer, I should apparently be
"more considerate" on this list, so I should probably not send as much
email here until I become a developer; or figure out why people think
I am brash and inconsiderate, and figure out a way to prevent coming
across that way.)
- -- 
Alexander
alexander@plaimi.net
http://plaimi.net/~alexander
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH3uZEACgkQRtClrXBQc7VhXgD/cv2FLuvEplEuDP/2B1rgkEn7
77laun9GBAiKr1NLiw8BALHLMfkEmIciN9VB7aQbVKWchaUxe1X5ItTA5n51otG3
=/RN7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[gentoo-dev] Re: s/disk space/drive space

[Duncan]

Ulrich Mueller posted on Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:57:52 +0200 as excerpted:

>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2013, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> 
>> On 30/07/13 14:12, Alex Legler wrote:
>>> 'disk space' is a perfectly valid term even if you have fancy solid
>>> state drives these days. It is an established term in technical
>>> documentation that everyone understands even if you don't physically
>>> use a 'disk'.
> 
> +1
> 
>> It's *wrong*. In school we were even taught to avoid it. :-)
> 
> It can hardly be more wrong than "drive". A solid state device doesn't
> contain any mechanical components like motors that would drive it.

Additionally, "Drivespace" aka "DRVSPACE.EXE" was an MS whole-partition 
data-compression product at one point (tho I believe they purchased it 
rather than developing it "in-house"), superseding "Doublespace".  For 
people familiar with that, "drive space" has unwanted and possibly 
trademarked associations.

OTOH, the "free space" or "space available" suggestions I saw elsewhere 
do make a lot of sense and avoid both the "disc" and "mechanical drive" 
implications.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[vivo75]

On 07/30/13 15:03, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> On 30/07/13 14:55, Douglas Freed wrote:
> >> How is it wrong?
> I don't have a disk so informing me that I don't have enough disk space
> does not make any sense..
>
> I think my suggestion and its justification has been made clear, so I
> will not proceed to feed the bikeshed monster.
>
>
> (Furthermore, because I am a non-developer, I should apparently be
> "more considerate" on this list, so I should probably not send as much
> email here until I become a developer; or figure out why people think
> I am brash and inconsiderate, and figure out a way to prevent coming
> across that way.)


does "storage space" make everyone happy?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: s/disk space/drive space

[Tobias Klausmann]

Hi! 

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013, Duncan wrote:
> OTOH, the "free space" or "space available" suggestions I saw elsewhere 
> do make a lot of sense and avoid both the "disc" and "mechanical drive" 
> implications.

It's also closer to the common LANG=C expando of ENOSPC. Whatever
the underlying physical thing is, it will usually be a device,
from the OS' point of view.

Regards,
Tobias

-- 
Life is like a burrito:
    If it's really good, You won't need a knife.

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM, vivo75@gmail.com <vivo75@gmail.com> wrote:
> does "storage space" make everyone happy?
>

rich0 is confused and looks over at the "storage space" he keeps his
bicycles in...

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:53:11 -0400
Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM, vivo75@gmail.com <vivo75@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > does "storage space" make everyone happy?
> >
> 
> rich0 is confused and looks over at the "storage space" he keeps his
> bicycles in...

So what colour would your storage space be?

Also, "persistent storage device space", anyone? Or "data storage
device space"?

Also, "drive space" would be dead wrong. A drive[1] is a device which
holds a storage medium (often a disk, as in, you know, a "disk drive").
"Solid-state drive" is even more confusing than "solid-state disk" (and
both are common parlance).

Obviously in the original context the medium isn't important at all. So
we should settle on "file system space" and hope we don't anger fierce
hordes of librarians who still use card-based library classification
index systems. We don't want to do that.


     jer


[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM_magnetic_disk_drives#IBM_350

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:00:26PM +0200, Jeroen Roovers wrote
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:53:11 -0400
> Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM, vivo75@gmail.com <vivo75@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > does "storage space" make everyone happy?
> > >
> > 
> > rich0 is confused and looks over at the "storage space" he keeps his
> > bicycles in...
> 
> So what colour would your storage space be?

I think mauve has the most ram http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-11-17/

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[gentoo-dev] Re: s/disk space/drive space

[Chris Brannon]

Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> writes:

> Also, "drive space" would be dead wrong. A drive[1] is a device which
> holds a storage medium (often a disk, as in, you know, a "disk drive").
> "Solid-state drive" is even more confusing than "solid-state disk" (and
> both are common parlance).

In the interest of linguistic accuracy, maybe solid state drives should
be referred to as "solid state data depositories".  That would overload
one of my favorite acronyms.

-- Chris

Re: [gentoo-dev] s/disk space/drive space

[Ian Stakenvicius]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 30/07/13 10:53 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM, vivo75@gmail.com
> <vivo75@gmail.com> wrote:
>> does "storage space" make everyone happy?
>> 
> 
> rich0 is confused and looks over at the "storage space" he keeps
> his bicycles in...
> 

'filesystem space' would be the most correct technical term, I think
- -- unless you're talking about partitioning or making/growing
filesystems, chance are it's the filesystem that's running out of
space, not the pyhsical (or virtual) layer underneath...


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)

iF4EAREIAAYFAlH5N0kACgkQ2ugaI38ACPDFWQD/ShcsBoN46Lt93kgawdhFgk2E
um0J6dG6QkSMnhsJoosA/3Q8rahq/mQLNBfHMeL2hQEG8VnPRB/K11WKu20+ldWl
=YO21
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----