[gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Leho Kraav]

php5-5 vs python2_7


Why, how did that happen?

Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Leho Kraav wrote:

> php5-5 vs python2_7
> Why, how did that happen?

Using the hyphen is cleaner, because the underscore is used as the
separator for USE_EXPAND.

(OTOH, as long a nobody will introduce a PYTHON_TARGETS_PYTHON2
variable, python2_7 will also work fine.)

Ulrich

Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-07-27, o godz. 10:37:04
Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> napisał(a):

> php5-5 vs python2_7
> 
> 
> Why, how did that happen?

Because some people like to type 'php_targets_php5-5'.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Mike Gilbert]

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> wrote:
> php5-5 vs python2_7
>
>
> Why, how did that happen?
>

We had some discussion of this a while back. RUBY_TARGETS is yet
another permutation with no version separator at all.

As for why it happened: the eclasses involved were each written at
different times by different people with little to no coordination.

Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Leho Kraav]

On 27.07.2013 11:08, Michał Górny wrote:
> Dnia 2013-07-27, o godz. 10:37:04
> Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> napisał(a):
>
>> php5-5 vs python2_7
>>
>>
>> Why, how did that happen?
>
> Because some people like to type 'php_targets_php5-5'.

Thanks everyone for replying.

Wondering if there's any plan for proper convergence at some point?

Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> wrote:
> Wondering if there's any plan for proper convergence at some point?

I'd guess that the value of further convergence is so small that it
will not be a priority for any of the teams.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Brian Dolbec]

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On Sun, 2013-07-28 at 13:33 +0200, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> wrote:
> > Wondering if there's any plan for proper convergence at some point?
> 
> I'd guess that the value of further convergence is so small that it
> will not be a priority for any of the teams.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dirkjan
> 

Ruby team has been very vocal about NOT changing it's way in the past.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Diego Elio Pettenò]

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Because it would require us to change a whole load more than just the
targets variable.

Plus we actually were the first coming up with the solution...


Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Brian Dolbec <dolsen@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 2013-07-28 at 13:33 +0200, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Leho Kraav <leho@kraav.com> wrote:
> > > Wondering if there's any plan for proper convergence at some point?
> >
> > I'd guess that the value of further convergence is so small that it
> > will not be a priority for any of the teams.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dirkjan
> >
>
> Ruby team has been very vocal about NOT changing it's way in the past.
>

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[gentoo-dev] PYTHON flags grammar? why?

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 09:59:38AM +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote
> >>>>> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Leho Kraav wrote:
> 
> > php5-5 vs python2_7
> > Why, how did that happen?
> 
> Using the hyphen is cleaner, because the underscore is used as the
> separator for USE_EXPAND.
> 
> (OTOH, as long a nobody will introduce a PYTHON_TARGETS_PYTHON2
> variable, python2_7 will also work fine.)

  Out of sheer curiousity, why does make.conf need all 3 of...

PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7"
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7"
USE_PYTHON="2.7"

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-dev] PYTHON flags grammar? why?

[Alex Xu]

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On 28/07/13 05:07 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 09:59:38AM +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote
>>>>>>> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Leho Kraav wrote:
>>
>>> php5-5 vs python2_7
>>> Why, how did that happen?
>>
>> Using the hyphen is cleaner, because the underscore is used as the
>> separator for USE_EXPAND.
>>
>> (OTOH, as long a nobody will introduce a PYTHON_TARGETS_PYTHON2
>> variable, python2_7 will also work fine.)
> 
>   Out of sheer curiousity, why does make.conf need all 3 of...
> 
> PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7"

Because some packages only accept a single version of Python. e.g.
Blender, systemd. I think this also applies to the default Python
version for packages that install executables.

> PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7"

Because the Python ABI [*] requires different libraries to be built for
different versions and installed in different places. /usr/lib/python?.?

[*] not really a binary interface, but let's call it that
> USE_PYTHON="2.7"

This is deprecated, AFAIK and used for old packages that do not support
PYTHON_TARGETS. (something to do with EAPI or eclass or something like that)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] PYTHON flags grammar? why?

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-07-28, o godz. 17:07:20
"Walter Dnes" <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> napisał(a):

> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 09:59:38AM +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote
> > >>>>> On Sat, 27 Jul 2013, Leho Kraav wrote:
> > 
> > > php5-5 vs python2_7
> > > Why, how did that happen?
> > 
> > Using the hyphen is cleaner, because the underscore is used as the
> > separator for USE_EXPAND.
> > 
> > (OTOH, as long a nobody will introduce a PYTHON_TARGETS_PYTHON2
> > variable, python2_7 will also work fine.)
> 
>   Out of sheer curiousity, why does make.conf need all 3 of...
> 
> PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7"
> PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7"
> USE_PYTHON="2.7"

You could also search the archives instead of bringing up the same
questions again. The whole rationale was there.

And before yet another person asks: gmane!

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Ole Markus With]

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On 07/28/2013 06:54 PM, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote:
> Because it would require us to change a whole load more than just
> the targets variable.
> 

This is sort of the same for PHP. We need to know the major and minor
version based on the flag value. We technically could assume that
major version would be one digit and the rest would be the minor
version, but didn't feel quite right to unnecessary remove information
from the variables and then try to hack it back in again.

I don't really care what the separator is. The reason I chose dash for
separation major/minor version was simply to distinguish between the
value and variable part of USE_EXPAND. Just seemed natural at the time.

The last time this discussion came up I offered to change the grammar,
but people did not seem to care enough for me to send all PHP users
through the hassle. I am also not quite sure how to change the grammar
in a clean way.

- -- 
Ole Markus
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Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Michał Górny]

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Dnia 2013-07-31, o godz. 09:38:20
Ole Markus With <olemarkus@olemarkus.org> napisał(a):

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> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 07/28/2013 06:54 PM, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote:
> > Because it would require us to change a whole load more than just
> > the targets variable.
> > 
> 
> This is sort of the same for PHP. We need to know the major and minor
> version based on the flag value. We technically could assume that
> major version would be one digit and the rest would be the minor
> version, but didn't feel quite right to unnecessary remove information
> from the variables and then try to hack it back in again.

Well, I think the specific difference here is that ruby executables are
named 'ruby18', 'ruby19' and that fits RUBY_TARGETS. Python executables
have version separator in them so that makes dropping it at least
inconsistent.

- -- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
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Re: [gentoo-dev] PHP_TARGETS vs PYTHON_TARGETS different grammar, why?

[Mike Gilbert]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Ole Markus With
<olemarkus@olemarkus.org> wrote:
> I don't really care what the separator is. The reason I chose dash for
> separation major/minor version was simply to distinguish between the
> value and variable part of USE_EXPAND. Just seemed natural at the time.
>

I think a hyphen/dash would have been a better choice for python as
well, but it's a bit late to change that now. If someone has a way to
do it without causing a lot of work and breaking people's systems, I
would love to hear it.