From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46DD1381F3 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 11:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A5F68E093A; Tue, 28 May 2013 11:58:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from georges.telenet-ops.be (georges.telenet-ops.be [195.130.137.68]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E30E078C for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 11:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TOMWIJ-GENTOO ([94.226.55.127]) by georges.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id hPyS1l00e2khLEN06PyTST; Tue, 28 May 2013 13:58:28 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:56:19 +0200 From: Tom Wijsman To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Switchup-mode and boottime selector? Was: eselect init Message-ID: <20130528135619.44259b60@TOMWIJ-GENTOO> In-Reply-To: References: <51A08A68.3020900@gentoo.org> <20130526084332.1a8afa69@gentoo.org> <51A1DC0C.2070706@gentoo.org> <20130526125742.4584d094@gentoo.org> <51A1F493.90101@gentoo.org> <51A22310.70202@gentoo.org> <20130527224021.GA18963@waltdnes.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.18; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/29ijCpc1v+B7P2p_kr9DrH1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 2a2d9401-ebab-4642-a503-afb97012c26f X-Archives-Hash: 694a9cd40495e22972ae978208339348 --Sig_/29ijCpc1v+B7P2p_kr9DrH1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 28 May 2013 09:56:49 +0000 (UTC) Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote: > In part my post was to make it obvious that's really what we'll end > up doing if we want any sort of robustness at all. How much robustness do we really want? http://engineerblogs.org/2011/04/can-a-design-be-too-robust/ > Otherwise there's simply too much that can go wrong. You can't have too much go right, that's an unrealistic goal. > But assuming people DO insist on traveling that road, there's only > one way to do it robustly; thru some sort of single-user-mode by that > name or something else. Why reimplement something that exists? Can we reuse single user mode? Why do we need single user mode at all? If you're changing something as important as the init system, one should be prepared to have an system rescue medium available to correct the system if needed; although that is not necessarily needed if you use a wrapper with init=3D/sbin/einit as you can then just drop that kernel parameter and use the default again. > And if it's going to be done, let's quit wasting time on all the too > horribly brittle to think about if not simply broken methods that > I've seen discussed, A comparison between methods goes further than just calling the other methods broken; this doesn't make me see your method as better, but rather as just another method, perhaps even a broken method. > and get to it with something that really is proven to work, a > single-user-mode of some sort, with scripts to simplify the already > simple and potentially break those doing something complex, sure, but > if anything's going to work, that'd be it. And if even that can't be > made to work or is found not to be worth the hassle, well... You're making a lot of statements like this but don't back them up. Why would this work best for this situation? What's wrong with the rest? --=20 With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : TomWij@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D --Sig_/29ijCpc1v+B7P2p_kr9DrH1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRpJtmAAoJEJWyH81tNOV9kZYIAKuvjySSjz+Y6odd9a4ac+Fh ls4klwhhh/w/LDSKbMieye4UBcN4tVIxICkICWLxohP+4A5QRU0gwD/xudWmYdXj GM/r2Hn2OXDIx1KKF+jgQhYbkWii6cz+51kJvLUdkKfRaiV3H1ntZQwiVNRG5y36 9Avz9HYZMlAowwJLhkEOgQ7qoRGGtWviJ4GdpV/rHqs0KijP4jc5POYiMa73+d6b 5DPHHSur0sRTkYQBEYonn+7RMQYzWuU2rsaXI0o/D5xWURE/J2WjbN8sPQS5e8P+ rJgoRSxCVBfG+Hm8CHpPWO5NuyVSOmXAUnA9KDENmNEW79qDrQy02bdWWihP5Ys= =XVkS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/29ijCpc1v+B7P2p_kr9DrH1--