From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F20F1381F3 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 07:00:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 80A3EE0C8A; Sun, 26 May 2013 07:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BC89E0BD2 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 07:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (178-37-163-206.adsl.inetia.pl [178.37.163.206]) (using SSLv3 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D66B33DEE1; Sun, 26 May 2013 06:59:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 08:55:38 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-2?B?TWljaGGzIEfzcm55?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: dlcampbell@gmx.com Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697) Message-ID: <20130526085538.42214885@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <51A1AA83.4080209@gmx.com> References: <51A1A294.3000609@sporkbox.us> <51A1AA83.4080209@gmx.com> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.18; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA512; boundary="Sig_/vhjj32HgFs147MmxtI=KnYr"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 2ec4e258-991c-4baf-aadf-fb83899c28d7 X-Archives-Hash: c2acfa9cd2312db06d5b1d1e4c069f8d --Sig_/vhjj32HgFs147MmxtI=KnYr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 26 May 2013 01:24:03 -0500 Daniel Campbell wrote: > On 05/25/2013 02:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: > > We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages not > > providing systemd units). We should come to better consensus on systemd > > integration and we were getting there with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I > > don't know that it is a working solution yet. I have to oppose adding > > unit files unless we have a way to opt out for reasons I gave earlier, > > regarding embedded systems where one needs to conserve space > > aggressively. And we may have found a way to do so without cluttering > > ebuilds with USE flags. > >=20 > > Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for opting > > out? I can't support this initiative without such a solution and I > > would be happy to work with the systemd people to reach it, ie I'll tes= t. >=20 > I'm not a dev (though I would like to be...), but consider me interested > in testing an opt-out method as well. I'm going to try INSTALL_MASK and > see what happens. I'm not sure if any of my packages have systemd units > yet, though. Please fix your e-mail client to send replies to the mail you are replying it, instead of the top mail in the thread. > As far as resisting systemd, why is that so bad? Vertical integration is > generally a bad idea with the sole exception of when your use case(s) > line up perfectly with the ivory tower and you need all of the offered > features. If Gentoo falls to systemd, there will literally be no > Linux-based distros left to prevent it from taking over, and as a result > Linux-based systems will become more and more tightly integrated, > killing the choice that Gentoo truly stands for and homogenizing everythi= ng. It is bad because ebuilds are not place to put politics into. If you want to become dev, you should understand this. We are supposed to be serious people. Serious people don't break user systems or refuse to support them in the name of manifesting their wishes. It is bad because it's not systemd that's losing, it's Gentoo. Except for the fact that there's just a few people that take Gentoo seriously these days. Upstreams clearly show that they don't care. We can either sit in the corner and resent, or we can work on improving the situation. And going on flamewars or manifestations doesn't really improve anything, you should know that by now. --=20 Best regards, Micha=B3 G=F3rny --Sig_/vhjj32HgFs147MmxtI=KnYr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJRobHqXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ1RUJGMjBGOTk2RkIzQzIyQ0M2RkNBNDBC QUJGMUQ1RkY4QzgxMTBBAAoJELq/HV/4yBEK5/QQALyFTM0iYKJ5r3z9Z89aapbk zf698NdPbL/PknCVAdT64+hEWj0pfOYe6MUYRZj9DdTZm+OVLbHevmtHC1TPAC4Y LI/vvUM2crbvYypTkQoWzaSC2QCkuUugJ3YD781ayRveb4bX+ChkvvLoKXKoMM/E SIQ/Yj/VMI7SK5FJwlx79nwKN+O4JLKgMdg6JoLddUeXbjKdE+PA23z5l+4n7tzv WVmUJ37UQDcfi47C4BJmHu/+rsANQ6qi8/tL7H/vdjr5+rwKuQVt6AyhWYUjfF2x e3/R7rTEhBHijoBkIQilIbUSCxMBI4GdhwhhT/beRHWa1kFoZi9SqK2SsDOwGktE 9lq6Z8Dl9q3W9+GkGAQxP1fhyw9W9F1UNrEafSgPV8ehk7+7aROBDvggru4YU/Fh 2h7LZ4+NE7u4+lmo4l+ZmQAi2lLvdGqwGw5+pnsSt0nacpFm7pUyAFXuubN3jw0v M7YmRwS7wrw3Hlwvv8YG63Wd2meqAWklRx5N+3CoqSQE7YOT4SLJ0+ofobdCmjLv yFE9nOvO52QObbo2nCVxQ6stuZ9Mf76OmU0Zj4s0Z4cujG3VLJ03TIJvy6pA9Ohq oK1xvM++VugPC+GL3RaLlmwv0COeLNXH4FWJNBdM2gbrgu78pjAOk5UXb+03UxWL omY1QSs++3nbo0+VlBKN =RzFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/vhjj32HgFs147MmxtI=KnYr--