On Sun, 26 May 2013 01:24:03 -0500
Daniel Campbell <dlcampbell@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 05/25/2013 02:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> > We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages not
> > providing systemd units).  We should come to better consensus on systemd
> > integration and we were getting there with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I
> > don't know that it is a working solution yet.  I have to oppose adding
> > unit files unless we have a way to opt out for reasons I gave earlier,
> > regarding embedded systems where one needs to conserve space
> > aggressively.  And we may have found a way to do so without cluttering
> > ebuilds with USE flags.
> > 
> > Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for opting
> > out?  I can't support this initiative without such a solution and I
> > would be happy to work with the systemd people to reach it, ie I'll test.
> 
> I'm not a dev (though I would like to be...), but consider me interested
> in testing an opt-out method as well. I'm going to try INSTALL_MASK and
> see what happens. I'm not sure if any of my packages have systemd units
> yet, though.

Please fix your e-mail client to send replies to the mail you are
replying it, instead of the top mail in the thread.

> As far as resisting systemd, why is that so bad? Vertical integration is
> generally a bad idea with the sole exception of when your use case(s)
> line up perfectly with the ivory tower and you need all of the offered
> features. If Gentoo falls to systemd, there will literally be no
> Linux-based distros left to prevent it from taking over, and as a result
> Linux-based systems will become more and more tightly integrated,
> killing the choice that Gentoo truly stands for and homogenizing everything.

It is bad because ebuilds are not place to put politics into. If you
want to become dev, you should understand this. We are supposed to be
serious people. Serious people don't break user systems or refuse to
support them in the name of manifesting their wishes.

It is bad because it's not systemd that's losing, it's Gentoo. Except
for the fact that there's just a few people that take Gentoo seriously
these days.

Upstreams clearly show that they don't care. We can either sit
in the corner and resent, or we can work on improving the situation.
And going on flamewars or manifestations doesn't really improve
anything, you should know that by now.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny