From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC151381F3 for ; Sat, 18 May 2013 17:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BC5AAE0848; Sat, 18 May 2013 17:02:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D53C5E07F2 for ; Sat, 18 May 2013 17:02:26 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFpZA4/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEBAQIBAQI3HCgLCyETEg8FFBE3iAsGDMEhjWGCSGEDjX6FYYIthX6IcIFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFpZA4/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEBAQIBAQI3HCgLCyETEg8FFBE3iAsGDMEhjWGCSGEDjX6FYYIthX6IcIFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="13399187" Received: from 69-165-144-56.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO waltdnes.org) ([69.165.144.56]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with SMTP; 18 May 2013 13:02:19 -0400 Received: by waltdnes.org (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 18 May 2013 13:02:12 -0400 From: "Walter Dnes" Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 13:02:12 -0400 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users Message-ID: <20130518170212.GA5735@waltdnes.org> References: <20130510094500.62b0c958@sera-20.lan> <5191F8B7.9080006@gentoo.org> <20130515141755.4d53f21e@gentoo.org> <20130515181813.GA27396@waltdnes.org> <20130516012008.GC8711@linux1> <519436FA.3070605@gentoo.org> <20130517005841.GA1491@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> <20130518034518.GA1466@linux1> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130518034518.GA1466@linux1> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: f60323c9-4d42-4c59-884b-83c8a189a2e3 X-Archives-Hash: 21f01b5d5dc742498249f7bfe05c44ef On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:45:18PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote > No one is arguing against that. All this thread is about is making > systemd a first-class citizen, like OpenRC/Sysvinit, so it will be as > smooth as possible for someone who wants to switch between the two. It seems that some of the proposals are crossing the line to make systemd first-class and openrc second-class. *THAT* is what's causing the complaints. The best analogy I can think of is the more extreme type of "affirmative action" that effectively amounts to racial discrimination against white people. The pro-systemd group here is advocating double-standards... 1) http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/dev/272180?do=post_view_threaded > Having a package to install every systemd unit in existence just > clutters the end user's system and makes it harder to tell which > units are actually valid. Yet openrc users are supposed to accept having their systems cluttered with systemd units. 2) I suggested keying on a "systemd" USE flag, to inform portage whether or not to install systemd units. I was told that https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198901 forbade using it that way. And therefore systemd config files would be installed regardless of flags. Therefore udev/eudev don't have "systemd" flags. But both have "openrc" flags, and will not run OK on an openrc machine without the "openrc" flag. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications